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Author Topic:   Homo floresiensis
RAZD
Member (Idle past 892 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 136 of 213 (209462)
05-18-2005 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Andya Primanda
05-18-2005 9:39 AM


Re: H floresiensis fossils irreparably damaged
unfortunately that does not resolve the issue of the fossils being damaged. Jacob will be blamed for sequestering them away from other scientists availability to study, cast, cat-scan, etc.
does this mean that all that's of value now are the models that have been made? or can they be reconstructed at all?

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 Message 135 by Andya Primanda, posted 05-18-2005 9:39 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Darwin's Terrier, posted 05-19-2005 8:39 AM RAZD has replied

  
Darwin's Terrier
Inactive Member


Message 137 of 213 (209622)
05-19-2005 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by RAZD
05-18-2005 6:18 PM


Re: H floresiensis fossils irreparably damaged
Reconstructing fossils from broken bits is what palaeontologists do for a living, so I imagine that quite a lot can be salvaged. Still, it's really shitty that they should have to do it, and presumably lots of info has been lost for good, especially any chance of DNA.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by RAZD, posted 05-18-2005 6:18 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by RAZD, posted 05-19-2005 8:47 PM Darwin's Terrier has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 892 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 138 of 213 (209787)
05-19-2005 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Darwin's Terrier
05-19-2005 8:39 AM


Re: H floresiensis fossils irreparably damaged
that's kind of what I figured, that plus there are some {before} pictures to guide the process. still a sad day.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 139 of 213 (245909)
09-23-2005 9:42 AM


What's the latest?
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | New 'Hobbit' disease link claim
There was a Horizon on this last night, but unfortunately I only caught the end. There seems to be a strong movement towards a disease-link claim - does anyone have any more scientific details?

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 892 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 140 of 213 (246021)
09-23-2005 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Dr Jack
09-23-2005 9:42 AM


Re: What's the latest?
I was just going to add that one.
Need more samples.

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 Message 141 by Chimpoo, posted 09-26-2005 4:58 PM RAZD has not replied

  
Chimpoo
Inactive Member


Message 141 of 213 (246604)
09-26-2005 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by RAZD
09-23-2005 7:34 PM


Re: What's the latest?
Here's a link to a discussion on the Horizon documentary,with some of my thoughts.Enjoy!
http://www2b.abc.net.au/...n/newposts/1838/topic1838098.shtm

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by RAZD, posted 09-23-2005 7:34 PM RAZD has not replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 475 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 142 of 213 (248833)
10-04-2005 11:40 AM


The Andamanese Negrito
The Andamanese Negrito (and other small people in the general vicinity) and Homo floresiensis, could they be related?
Here's an excellent and fascinating read about the Negritos (scroll down to the portion entitled "The Book"): The Andamanese Negrito

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Carson O'Genic, posted 10-05-2005 5:40 PM roxrkool has replied

  
Carson O'Genic
Junior Member (Idle past 5599 days)
Posts: 20
From: San Francisco, CA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 143 of 213 (249194)
10-05-2005 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by roxrkool
10-04-2005 11:40 AM


Re: The Andamanese Negrito
Thanks for that link, I've wasted most of my day getting sucked into that fascinating text.
Your question is an interesting one. I don't know the answer, and doubt anyone else does. I would assume that floresiensis evolved from ancestors that coloinzed that region of the world, which makes the Andamanese Negrito the closest living representations of the initial founder population.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by roxrkool, posted 10-04-2005 11:40 AM roxrkool has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by roxrkool, posted 10-06-2005 11:39 AM Carson O'Genic has replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 475 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 144 of 213 (249503)
10-06-2005 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Carson O'Genic
10-05-2005 5:40 PM


Re: The Andamanese Negrito
I'm glad you enjoyed the read. My father is the one who mentioned the Negritos to me, though he was referring to the ones living on the Philippine Islands. He was stationed on the Philippines years ago and remembered them clearly.
I have been somewhat following this floresiensis discovery and wondered why none of these small-statured people were mentioned at all. Especially since so many of them are found in that same area. Perhaps, it's simply too early for speculations of that sort. I'm sure it's been (and being) considered by researchers.

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 Message 143 by Carson O'Genic, posted 10-05-2005 5:40 PM Carson O'Genic has replied

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Carson O'Genic
Junior Member (Idle past 5599 days)
Posts: 20
From: San Francisco, CA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 145 of 213 (249537)
10-06-2005 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by roxrkool
10-06-2005 11:39 AM


Re: The Andamanese Negrito
I beleive that despite the similarities in stature, H. floresiensis is still very different. The brain volume is very small compared to modern humans. Hence the hypothesis that it is a different species or a mutation/developmental defect.

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 Message 144 by roxrkool, posted 10-06-2005 11:39 AM roxrkool has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by RAZD, posted 10-08-2005 6:58 PM Carson O'Genic has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 892 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 146 of 213 (250138)
10-08-2005 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Carson O'Genic
10-06-2005 12:55 PM


Digital H. floriensis skull
I was just reading the Oct issue of Discover and it had this tid-bit:
Discover Financial Services
Now paleoanthropologists can put a hominid skull in a computed-tomography, or CT, scanner and create a virtual skull that they can split apart any way they want. If they remove that digital skull altogether, they leave behind the outlines of a virtual brain. In 2005 a virtual brain of the one known skull of Homo floresiensis”the three-foot-tall hominid discovered on the Indonesian island of Flores”provided evidence in the ongoing debate about whether the creature represents a separate species or was a human pygmy with a birth defect. The size and shape of the virtual brain lends credence to the separate species theory. Moreover, the brain was not just a simpler version of a human brain. Some regions were smaller than ours, but others were unusually large for such a small hominid, hinting that Homo floresiensis might have been capable of abstract thought and could make complicated plans.
I would think that they would think ... differently.
The areas that are larger than normal would not be consistent with the diseased H. erectus\sapiens hypothesis.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Carson O'Genic, posted 10-06-2005 12:55 PM Carson O'Genic has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Carson O'Genic, posted 10-08-2005 7:42 PM RAZD has not replied
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Carson O'Genic
Junior Member (Idle past 5599 days)
Posts: 20
From: San Francisco, CA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 147 of 213 (250147)
10-08-2005 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by RAZD
10-08-2005 6:58 PM


Re: Digital H. floriensis skull
They found (small) tools in the same caves as the fossils, so that would lend credence to their ability for abstract thought.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by RAZD, posted 10-08-2005 6:58 PM RAZD has not replied

  
Ben!
Member (Idle past 885 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 148 of 213 (250151)
10-08-2005 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by RAZD
10-08-2005 6:58 PM


Re: Digital H. floriensis skull
Here's a link to the Science article that the Nature article seems to be referencing.
Just a moment...
Apologies to those who don't have access to the article; you can request a reprint from Dr. Falk's website if you really want. Here's the abstract:
The brain of Homo floresiensis was assessed by comparing a virtual endocast from the type specimen (LB1) with endocasts from great apes, Homo erectus, Homo sapiens, a human pygmy, a human microcephalic, specimen number Sts 5 (Australopithecus africanus), and specimen number WT 17000 (Paranthropus aethiopicus). Morphometric, allometric, and shape data indicate that LB1 is not a microcephalic or pygmy. LB1's brain/body size ratio scales like that of an australopithecine, but its endocast shape resembles that of Homo erectus. LB1 has derived frontal and temporal lobes and a lunate sulcus in a derived position, which are consistent with capabilities for higher cognitive processing.
PubMed abstract

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 149 of 213 (250717)
10-11-2005 9:29 AM


More finds
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | More Flores 'Hobbits' described
They're claiming to have found the skeletons of nine more individuals, so either this is a population of homo sapiens with some genetic, or pandemic, pathology (how unlikely this is, I don't know?) or it really is a new species.

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by PaulK, posted 10-11-2005 9:55 AM Dr Jack has replied
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17394
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 150 of 213 (250732)
10-11-2005 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Dr Jack
10-11-2005 9:29 AM


Re: More finds
It says "skeletal remains" rather than skeletons - which suggests that none of them is even close to complete. Unless they include a skull or at least a few jaws then I don't think that they will be that helpful. And if there had been a skull in reasonable condition I think that that would have been mentioned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Dr Jack, posted 10-11-2005 9:29 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Dr Jack, posted 10-11-2005 12:02 PM PaulK has replied

  
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