How was the Great Pyramid built?

Since it looks like the Great Pyramid thread has come to an abrupt halt, I’d like for us to simply go on to discuss the GP, how it was built and who built it. To keep it on track, I propose that we walk through the possible construction methods from beginning to end.For each step, I suggest that we place a restriction on the discussion that we need to show how each step could be accomplished with the technology, knowledge and tools available to the builders before going on to the next step.The individual steps that I think are key or milestones would be:

1. orientation (including determining North, South, East and West).
2. leveling the base.
3. determining the corners.
4. determining the slope.
5. quarry and materials.
6. manpower logistics (feeding, medical care, housing).
7. moving and raising the stones.
8. creating internal passages.

If anyone has additional milestones or tasks, they can be added.This should probably go in Coffee House.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Sounds like an interesting topic. I'll respond with my thoughts not really knowing what is known or not.Overall, this was a huge empire with many resources (manpower) from other regions/countries:
1) I think they had the ability to determine that from the night sky and the rising and setting of the sun.
2) I would hazard that water in a trough (probably more sophisticated) would contribute to the leveling process..are you questioning tools as well?
3&4) The corners and slope, are the corners exactly 90 degrees, or is there something more? I think that the same tool they used for the corners was used for the slope as all it required was another line, and one would have gotten that buy using the stabilizing "line that we have nowadays for the right triangle...however, I do not know what the slope is, so this could be pure bs
5) This I can't really address as I am unfamiliar with the geography in that detail..could have used boats? (although there is no archeological evidence to back that up).
6) This, quite frankly I think was the easiest: between shifts, "bunkhouses"/barracks, possibly a crop area for the workers alone that some spent their time here as opposed to the pyramids...I think along the same lines as what the military is capable of (not necessary to have Chef Cordon Bleu or a maid service)...even as far as medical care, I think some of the workers might have been actual healthcare providers in some capacity.
7) This I am completely unsure of because I've heard they had the knowledge of the lever, but not the pully (is this correct?). Which I think is somewhat unreasonable considering they had sails on their ships. In my opinion some sort of pully had to have been designed to facilitate raising and lowering the sails...no idea though.
8) Maybe you can expand on this....why would it have been more of a problem than the huge stones used to construct the outer portion?

I'd like for us to go into greater detail. Let's stick to the first point until we can come up with a reasonable method.How could the Egyptians determine East and West accurately? How could they then use the East West axis to determine the North South axis? What tools, methods and procedures would they have likely employed?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Look at the sunrise....mark it East, then do an about face and mark that West.This message has been edited by 1.61803, 10-28-2004 09:46 PM

Will that do it or would I get different readings on different days? Will it always point due east and west regardless of time of year?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

But there are special days in the year. How far off is the sunrise on the spring equinox from due east? In fact, I don't think it matters what the latitude it is due east anyway. (though why that is isn't totally obvious to me -- I just used to have a house that was situated due east/west and on the equinnoxes the sun rose directly up a roof window on the east)It sure is due east on the equator and Egypt is not far off the equator.This message has been edited by NosyNed, 10-28-2004 10:06 PM

The sun would rise at precisely due east only on the day of either equinox, and only if the exact time of the equinox was also the time of sunrise. Around the time of the equinoxes, the sun rises at points about a half-degree apart each successive day. You could get a much more accurate "true east" by watching sunrises at their northern and southern extremes - at the solstices - and bisecting the angle the extremes formed with the observation point. The point of sunrise is very nearly at a standstill - 5 minutes of arc or less - for a week or more on either side of the solstices.The Egyptians could certainly bisect angles. The solar standstills were well known to lots of ancients - British megaliths used them, and several American Indian groups used tose directions as their "points of the compass" instead of our N, E, S, and W.

Easy for you Canadians to say, eh? I'm nearly as close, and I'll bet Jar is closer than Giza is.

So orientation would be well within the capabilities of the Egyptians?How about layout for the structure? Would they be able to layout the base for the structure?How would they go about the task of laying out a precise square? What techniques could they use to check the layout to make sure that it's true?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Possibly: set up a seat to observe from along the line they want to use for the north edge of the pyramid. (Heck, put on along the south line too, if you want to.) Watch solstice sunrises for ten years or so, erecting pillars a half-mile down those sightlines, and keeping records of any slight year-to-year wiggles. Bisect the angle and run a chalkline down the true east-west that your bisector defines.Build true right angles at your corners-to-be with the knotted rope trick you already use for surveying - a 3 x 4 x 5 triangle gives a 90-degree angle, and Pythagoras even proved it a couple thousand years later.A right angle at the end of one of these legs, or simply measuring down each leg, gives you a true square. If you use a pretty long, non-stretchy rope, and check that your knots are perfectly evenly spaced, you can get terrifically close to a right angle. Particularly if you think Anubis will eat your liver and pancreas if you screw it up.

Okay, so the orientation and layout seem to be within their capability, technology and knowledgebase, but what about leveling the base?How would the Egyptians go about building a level and substantial base to support the construction?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Remember that ancient peoples probably had a much greater sense of the stars than we do, buried as we are under smog and light pollution. As I understand it, they thought of the Milky Way as a rive, running east west in contrast to the nile running north south. Cardinal directions were probably easy for them to identify, and they would have thousands of years worth of observational skills already, as navigation by stars is very very old.As for levelling, the model used in the game Pharoah is as follows: the earth is stripped back to bedrock, grid-like channels are cut into the bedrock and filled with water. The water is used to determine the level of the bedrock surface and it is smoothed to be flat, and then the water is removed and the talus reinserted into the grooves. Thus, a flat base.I must say I have no idea where the game writers came upon this model but it seems plausible enough at first glance.This message has been edited by contracycle, 10-29-2004 08:04 AM

For some interesting info on the subject, check out Oops! We ran into some problems. | Internet Infidels Discussion Board
Willowtree recently took part in a formal debate on Infidels regarding the construction of the Great Pyramid. His opponent provided a wealth of information about the construction process, based on artifacts unearthed around the site. The thread includes copious references to useful sources and original research on the pyramids of Giza.Edited/ effing typos and UBB incompetency....This message has been edited by zephyr, 10-29-2004 09:20 AM

That URL is broken, FYI