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Author Topic:   You Guys Need to Communicate! (thoughts from an ex evangelical Christian)
NosyNed
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Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 41 of 200 (385582)
02-16-2007 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by jar
02-16-2007 10:20 AM


Not about statements
I might be a bit mixed up between Dawkins and Harris but I think they would both agree on this:
The biggest danger of even moderates is that they make a virtue out of taking things on faith. The idea that it is a good thing to believe something is true with no or even contradictory evidence allows for all sorts of stupid and horrific things to be built from there.
I think that taking things on faith is not a good thing at all. It is what you do when you don't have time or don't think it is worth investing effort to determine the credibility of an idea. It is a stop gap and not a good thing to be praised at all.

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 Message 38 by jar, posted 02-16-2007 10:20 AM jar has replied

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 Message 42 by jar, posted 02-16-2007 11:22 AM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 50 by cavediver, posted 02-16-2007 1:03 PM NosyNed has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 52 of 200 (385632)
02-16-2007 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by cavediver
02-16-2007 1:03 PM


comfort
While I agree, to some degree, with your "comfort" excuse and I happen to think there are other values in what we see in moderate religious organizations now I think that this quote applies:
George Bernard Shaw writes:
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
Furthermore, speaking on behalf of most of the Christians I know, they do have a great deal of evidence to back up their faith - the fact that we would describe such evidence as purely subjective and existential will not faze them in the slighest.
And we know from psychology that such subjective experience are not evidence that a rational person should trust. All you do is prove that there is danger in even moderate religious thought by suggesting that such experiences should count for anything at all.
We all have this frailty; to encourage it is not a virtue. There are many frailties that we must come to understand and learn to overcome or our oh-so-brainy species might not make it.

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 Message 50 by cavediver, posted 02-16-2007 1:03 PM cavediver has replied

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 Message 53 by cavediver, posted 02-16-2007 1:58 PM NosyNed has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 59 of 200 (385672)
02-16-2007 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by cavediver
02-16-2007 1:58 PM


bogus sound bite
And I am very familiar with the quote... soundbites make for good humour but not good criticism - nor anything else for that matter. If we want to work on the level of this quote then it is obvously down to personal state of mind vs effect on society. On this basis it is abundantly clear that comparing believer/skeptic to drunk/sober is bogus.
It is a sound bite. The underlying valid issue is deciding that something is good if you are made happy even if it is false. It is fine to delude a child but what makes an adult is someone able to deal with reality and be happy.
Do you still have the records you kept from when you first met your wife? I trust you wrote them up and submitted them for peer-review?
I've been married twice. I got it very right the second time. There was at least a little rationality that time. It is the total disregard for rationality ingendered by falling in love that makes for some very bad marriages.

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 Message 53 by cavediver, posted 02-16-2007 1:58 PM cavediver has replied

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