It was seven years that Nebuchadnezzar was afflicted with lycanthropy,
whoa whoa whoa. did you just say "werewolf?" don't get me wrong, werewolves are badass, and "american werewolf in london" terrified me when i was kid --
-- but i don't think there are werewolves in the bible. this is another "simple" argument. i can't believe you even brought this stuff up. read what it says. it uses the words "like" or "as." that's not even a metaphor. those than be hard to pick up. no, this is a simile.
[quote]Dan 4:33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass
as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown
like eagles' [feathers], and his nails [/b]like[/b] birds' [claws].[/quote]
he's not turning into a wolf. his hair grows long, and his nails grow long. both hair and nails are things that people naturally have. this passage is reflecting the passage of time withough civilization or tools -- or haircuts. also, werewolves don't eat grass. nebuchadnezzar became a wild man, and for seven seasons, not years.
When Jerusalem was destroyed in the biblical date of 607 BC
586 bc.
Then started the seven gentile times, which were to run until the reestablishment of God's Kingdom. Jesus referred to these times
and these times where what? because the times in that daniel verse are referring to seasons that nebuchadnezzar lived as a wild man -- and NOTHING ELSE. you can't just read and re-apply verses arbitrarily out of context to whatever you want. it's not some hidden code that you have to crack to solve the prophecy of the endtimes. of all of the end-time prophecies in daniel, this is NOT ONE OF THEM.
(Luke 21:24) "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled." Then at the end of the seven gentile times, Jesus is enthroned as king in heaven. (Acts 3:20-21) "Jesus, whom heaven, indeed, must hold within itself until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets of old time."
those verses are not in support of your point. they do say that jerusalem will be overthrown and reestablished. but they do not say the word "seven" nor do they indicate a time frame or any signs.
Michael is the Archangel Michael who of course is Jesus Christ,
i know the jw's believe this, but you have repeatedly failed to demonstrate any textual evidence for this in the slightest. in fact, revelation refers to michael -- and to jesus. in the same chapter. it stands to reason that if they were the same person, the author would make note of it.
And this all refers back to Daniel's prophecy about the seven times
which you have failed (rather circularly) to actually show are referring to anything other than the sentance of nebuchadnezzar in the wilderness.
This time period obviously started with the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 BC
586 bc.
when the Davidic line of Kings was ended,
587 bc, king zedekiah, in captivity.
and the times end when the line of Davidic Kings is reestablished with Jesus as David's heir, taking the throne of the messianic Kingdom in 1914.
wait, what? when did a davidic king of judah sit on the throne in jerusalem, in 1914? nearest i can tell, the ottoman empire still ruled jerusalem until 1917 -- sure that kind of defeats any charge that the messiah cam and went (but "forgot" to remove the foriegn power).
In my next post we can get into the length of the seven times.
no. first you show that "seven times" means anything besides what it says -- nebuchadnezzar's sentance. it's one thing to read prophecy, but another to read into stuff that isn't there.
The Samaritans had Jewish blood being descended from Jews who intermarried with gentiles, but were not considered Jewish nor did the Samaritans at the time consider themselves to be Jews.
no, actually, samaritans not only had jewish blood, but they worship the lord. that makes them jewish. lots of other jews intermarried and worshipped foreign gods, and were still jewish. what makes the samaritans different?
Look at Jesus' words. (John 4:22) "YOU worship what YOU do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews."
wow. another circular argument. you can't cite the verse in question to prove itself. the judean jews (in jerusalem) at the time DID think of them as outsiders, yes. how does this compare with jesus's point about "the good samaritan?" does jesus seem to think the treatment of them as outsiders is fair in that story?
how does that compare to john? does it even sound like the same kind of guy to you?
Also she stated; (John 4:20) "Our forefathers worshiped in this mountain; but YOU people say that in Jerusalem is the place where persons ought to worship." she didn't consider herself a Jew ether, there is a difference between being of Jewish descent and being a Jew.
actually, there's not. ask einstein and all kind of other non-religious, secular, and humanist jews. but strictly speaking, i suppose you're right but for a much more banal reason: jews are from judea. samaritans are from israel. wrong country.
however, look at that statement she makes. this is another time it's good to know some biblical history.
quote:
2Ki 23:19 And all the houses also of the high places that [were] in the cities of Samaria, which the kings of Israel had made to provoke [the LORD] to anger, Josiah took away, and did to them according to all the acts that he had done in Bethel.
josiah, under the direction of a newly "discovered" scroll (probably the book of deuteronomy) shuts down all of the holy places in judah except the temple in jerusalem. he then wages war against israel to do the same. deuteronomy says:
quote:
Deu 12:11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:
Deu 12:13 Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:
etc. so josiah, with this document in hand, declares ALL other temples idolatrous -- including the one in samaria. he shuts down especially all of the altars on mountains, and in the wilderness. now read the samaritan's statement again:
quote:
"Our forefathers worshiped in this mountain; but YOU people say that in Jerusalem is the place where persons ought to worship."
she's restating josiah's declaration. "YOU people" -- the judeans -- "say the israelites should worship in jerusalem." this was especially not fair in the divided kingdom period. but it's also inconsistent with the rest of the bible, the fact she is pointing out.
where does abraham sacrifice to god? on a mountain.
where does jacob wrestle with god? the desert.
where does moses take down god's laws? on a mountain.
the list goes on, btw. their forefathers -- the patriarchs of the JEWS -- DID worship in the wilderness, on the mountains. she's saying that she's true to the jewish tradition, and that the jerusalem religious elite are not. jesus responds by saying she's not a jew, so her opinion doesn't matter.
not very jesus-like of him, if you ask me. sounds a lot like today's republican party, actually.
Jesus stated that the Samaritans were worshipping what they didn't know, while salvation with the Jews, clearly two different religions.
and the statement doesn't even make sense. there is not reason for it to be in the new testament at all. because WE GENTILES are not jews at all. we are worshipping what we don't know.
oh wait, no. some guy wrote us letters, so we do. coversions are ok, but the conversion of outsiders that kings reports "doesn't count?" that's a heck of a double standard there! willing to bet your salvation on it? becuase that's what's at stake. if jesus's statement here is true, how can anyone be saved who is not a jew?
the jesus of the book of john is not the jesus of the book of luke, or even the jesus of paul's epistles.
Also the Samaritan woman stated that they didn't worship in the temple like the Jews did, but had their own place of worship on mountain Gerizim, clearly a faith that was different from the Jews.
clearly:
quote:
Gen 12:8 And he {Abram} removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel, and pitched his tent, [having] Bethel on the west, and Hai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the LORD, and called upon the name of the LORD.
quote:
Deu 27:12 These shall stand upon mount Gerizim to bless the people, when ye are come over Jordan; Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Joseph, and Benjamin:
no, jews never have religious ceremonies on mountains, especially not the one in question, and certainly not in the very book that forbids it!
Jesus clearly stated that he was the Christ the son of God
and you would believe christ's ACCUSERS over christ? shall we take the devil's word over god's too?
granted, in this case -- they're right. but it's still THEIR words, not christ's.
even stating how he would come on the clouds of heaven, the Jews also understood Jesus words as a clear statement that he was God's son, apparently they were more discerning than you on this matter.
try again. you even quoted this verse above!
quote:
(Daniel 7:13-14) "I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming;"
wanna know how the jews read that? "son of man" means "lowly mortal" idiomatically. it's a title god uses to address prophets like ezekiel. the jews would have known jesus was invoking the words of the prophet daniel, and even thought he was claiming to be a prophet. but not the son of god.
they MIGHT have thought that he was claiming to BE DANIEL. when daniel says "one like the son of man" many people read this as saying "a prophet like me." seeing prophets in the sky is nothing new -- god did take elijah and enoch, didn't he? they were mortal, sons of men.
son of man ≠ son of god. one is a title of humility, the other is a title of a king. they are polar opposites. granted, jesus may have been BOTH, but saying one does not automatically equate to the other.
אָרַח
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