Are there any substitutes for having inner peace?

On this board we argue over this or that detail of creation etc. But a fundamental difference between the evolution & science side of the debate and the creation & religious side, is that it is only on the religious side that true peace can be found. While science can be very interesting, it doesn't gave meaning to our lives or tell us why we are here. To find real inner peace we have to look to God. To find real inner you have to know were to look, here is a link to a very good article on finding it. (two articles) "Can You Find Inner Peace?" http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/2000/7/1/article_01.htmThat is the inner peace we can have by knowing God, now since inner peace is something that we all want and need to have, what is the alternative from the other side of the debate? What inner peace can atheism offer other than the kind mentioned on tombstones? RIP? This need for what can only be found by having a relationship with God, argues for there being a god. This is one of the key things that sets us apart from the animals, we have a spiritual side to us that they just don't have.This need for inner peace is a basic human need, I am curious to see what alternatives atheists would offer in place of it.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear Jar;Here is my revised OP.On this board we argue over this or that detail of creation etc. But a fundamental difference between the evolution & science side of the debate and the creation & religious side, is that it is only on the religious side that true peace can be found. While science can be very interesting, it doesn't gave meaning to our lives or tell us why we are here. To find real inner peace we have to look to God. To find real inner you have to know were to look, here is a link to a very good article on finding it. (two articles) "Can You Find Inner Peace?" http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/2000/7/1/article_01.htm & http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/2000/7/1/article_02.htmThe fact that spirituality creates an inner peace that improves mental health, improves coping skills and even has physical health benefits, is well documented by research findings as shown by the following abstract quotes. Role of religion and spirituality in medical patients: Confirmatory results with the SpREUK questionnaire | Health and Quality of Life Outcomes | Full Text Link to paper: Link to paper: Link to paper:Link to paper:The degree of positive effectiveness is related to the degree of religiousness, the more religious or 'closer to God' the person was, the more effective was their inner peace or coping. Link to paper:These articles cover mostly christian religions in general, since the quality or effectiveness of the inner peace was dependant on the degree of religiousness, it is to be expected that some religions will be much more effective than others and some will even have a negative effect. What is important is the degree of religiousness for achieving this general type of inner peace. There is a second kind of inner peace that only comes from God by means of his son. (John 14:27) "I leave YOU peace, I give YOU my peace. I do not give it to YOU the way that the world gives it. Do not let YOUR hearts be troubled nor let them shrink for fear." Biblically Christians have been given the gift of peace by Jesus Christ. This having the 'peace of God' is an important part of being a Christian. Paul referred to this peace many times in his letters.(Romans 1:7) . . .May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God . . .
(Romans 15:33) "May the God who gives peace be with all of YOU."
(Romans 16:20) . . .the God who gives peace . . .
(Philippians 4:6-7) Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving let YOUR petitions be made known to God; and the peace of God that excels all thought will guard YOUR hearts and YOUR mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.
(Philippians 4:9) . . .practice these; and the God of peace will be with you.
(2 John 3) There will be with us undeserved kindness, mercy [and] peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ the Son of the Father, with truth and love.The peace of God is not given to all who claim to follow God, according to Philippians 4:9 we have to practice what was taught to the congregations. "practice these; and the God of peace will be with you."This peace of God which he gives to those who serve him, is a very calming peace and has carried true servants of God through horrors like the Nazi concentration camps. ("When I met Jehovah's Witnesses I saw they were not damaged," he said. "They were still intact. How could they survive without the suffering and mental damage I had?"- http://zephyr.unr.edu/.../fall_02_pages/fredrickson_hol.html )That is the inner peace we can have by knowing God, now since inner peace is something that we all want and need to have, what is the alternative from the other side of the debate? This is one of the key things that sets us apart from the animals, we have a spiritual side to us that they just don't have.This need for inner peace is a basic human need, I am curious to see what alternatives atheists would offer in place of it.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear JustinC; I respect your courage and honesty, you have accepted your end and made peace with it. I wish everyone would face things as unflinchingly as you have. That being said, I will also point out that you have accepted the unacceptable, being willing to give up existing. What if there is an alternative? Reminds me of when a ferry sank and the Moslems on board accepted it as the will of Ala and drowned, while the others swam to shore. You owe it to yourself to find out if there is a hope that is real. I claim to have found that there is one, it is the only hope there is, so I advise you to check it out. My belief is not based on pure faith or wishful thinking, I have logically proved it as being real and you can do the same. Accepting nonexistence if it were truly the only possibility would be realistic, but it is not a hope or even healthy for your mind. I find any idea that embraces death or fatalism, unhealthily and a very bad standard to live by. One should be able to do better than having a hope of aspiring to be compost.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear bobbins; Yes I agree that atheists can have inner peace, of a basic sort. In talking about inner peace, and true inner peace, I am talking about degrees of peace and types of inner peace. The basic kind is just being at peace with yourself, a deeper inner peace would be being at peace with yourself and with God while true or real inner peace in the perfect sense would be the peace that comes from God by the holy spirit. That is the kind of peace Jehovah's Witnesses displayed in the concentration camps, that degree of inner peace can only come from God. The difference is important, for the basic kind is fine when you are "fat and happy" but when you are not, you need something more. The peace found in human philosophy fails when confronted with harsh realties like death and other horrors we find in this world.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear robinrohan; It is knowing the Truth (and acting on it), that gives peace. No peace is possible without Truth, lies and deceptions always bring trouble. (John 8:32) "YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free." It is only by knowing the Truth that we can gain freedom from not just injustice and violence, but from sin and death as well. Once the Truth has set you free, then you will know peace.Truth is what the Bible is all about, and Jesus is the truth.
(John 14:6) "Jesus said to him: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
But it is not just a matter of accepting Jesus and everything is great, we have to worship with spirit and truth, our worship must conform to biblical requirements to be acceptable.
(John 4:23-24) "Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth."
There is no peace in the world because it doesn't know truth.
(John 14:17) "the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither beholds it nor knows it. YOU know it, because it remains with YOU and is in YOU."
If we are for Truth, we will follow Christ.
(John 18:37) "Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice."
It is God's will that everyone learn the Truth, the way is open for everyone.
(1 Timothy 2:3-4) "This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth."I would be happy to help you to learn about the Truth. My e-mail address is in my profile.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear mikehager; Yes I am guilty of the most annoying form of arrogance, that of being right, don't you just hate that kind. Yes I agree that even atheists can have inner peace, of a basic sort. In talking about inner peace, and true inner peace, I am talking about degrees of peace and types of inner peace. The basic kind is just being at peace with yourself, a deeper inner peace would be being at peace with yourself and with God while true or real inner peace in the perfect sense would be the peace that comes from God by the holy spirit. That is the kind of peace Jehovah's Witnesses displayed in the concentration camps, that degree of inner peace can only come from God. The difference is important, for the basic kind is fine when you are "fat and happy" but when you are not, you need something more. The peace found in human philosophy fails when confronted with harsh realties like death and other horrors we find in this world.The fact that your peace comes from friends & family, indicates that your peace is dependant on them, that if you were to lose them you would lose your peace as well. In truly bad times, you would have nothing to carry you through. A true inner peace is not dependant on such things, and gives one a strength to deal with difficulties that you can't even imagine. For any coming storm, you are unprepared to deal with it. Human ideals are fine good times, but when the bad times come, they fall short. You should rethink your approach to life, for one thing I have learned, you can count on trouble coming your way soon or later. It pays to be ready for it.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear GDR; The reason for that is simple, you have not received the peace of God. The peace of God or true inner peace, is a comforting power that protects you from stress and helps you cope with things. (Philippians 4:7) "the peace of God that excels all thought will guard YOUR hearts and YOUR mental powers by means of Christ Jesus." It is not dependant on personality or the comfort level of your lifestyle, what it is dependant on is really believing and practicing what we believe in our lives.(Romans 8:6-7) "but the minding of the spirit means life and peace; because the minding of the flesh means enmity" It doesn't matter what you believe if you don't live it in your life.We must also have faith to receive peace from God.
(Romans 5:1) "Therefore, now that we have been declared righteous as a result of faith, let us enjoy peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
(Romans 15:13) "May the God who gives hope fill YOU with all joy and peace by YOUR believing, that YOU may abound in hope with power of holy spirit."But even the most ardent followers of many christian religions will not receive the gift of peace from God.
(2 Timothy 3:1-5) "But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be . . . having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power;"
The reason is that their form of devotion is without power or God's approval, because they have turned away from following the Truth in God's Word. It is necessary to worship God in truth, following the biblical teachings found in scriptures, to receive peace from God. (Philippians 4:9) "The things that YOU learned as well as accepted and heard and saw in connection with me, practice these; and the God of peace will be with you."By learning more about God and what he wants of us, and living by that knowledge, that we come in line to receive peace from God. Even once we have found the Truth, we can deepen our inner peace from God by learning more about God and drawing ever closer to him.
(2 Peter 1:2) "May undeserved kindness and peace be increased to YOU by an accurate knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,"Once you have peace from God, there is nothing that can take it away from you, as long as you remain faithful, God's peace will always be with you to carry you through whatever the world may throw at you.
(2 John 2-3) "because of the truth that remains in us, and it will be with us forever. There will be with us undeserved kindness, mercy [and] peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ the Son of the Father, with truth and love."I urge you to look for the peace of God, for without it, you have not yet found the kingdom of God. (Romans 14:17) "For the kingdom of God does not mean eating and drinking, but [means] righteousness and peace"I would like to help you to receive God's peace. Please feel free to E-mail me, my address is in my profile, or we can talk on the board too.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear Crashfrog; Doesn't surprise me, I feel so sorry for members of christian religions that don't follow what the Bible teaches. The harder they try to follow what they are taught, the more miserable their lives are. Finally they learn to say but not do, to avoid some of the hardship. These religions act like vast hypocrite factories, turning out huge numbers of people they have be taught to say one thing but in practice, to do another. Some people seeing all of this going on around them, just reject the whole horrible mess and become atheists, so no I am not surprised that you are more at peace now, then before. One of the purposes behind having counterfeit christianity is to turn people off from serving God or to convince them there is no God. After all, how could any God approve or even just tolerate what many christian religions have done. Most of this planet's wars and many of it's problems are caused by 'christian' religions.So I do agree with you on some things, of course I differ in that while we both agree about religions in general, I know that out of all the many religions out there, there is one that is the Truth. It is possible that the only important difference between us is that I found it and you haven't, yet.As for not needing to find God to find peace, yes of course for the basic kind of peace that is true, but I am talking about the Peace from God, true inner peace. That kind of peace comes only from God, the fact that we long for that kind of peace, argues for God's existence. See my post above to GDR if you want to learn more about what peace from God is. As humans we desperately want to be able to face life with a deep sense of serenity that can weather all the storms that can come our way. Being accepting about dying doesn't help much when you aren't the one that is dying, seeing loved ones die tends to blow any comfort from that kind of thinking away. All other kinds of inner peace have their limits, it is only the peace from God that will stand up under all tests.People who have peace from God are able to cope with extreme adversity, and are looked up to as being a worthy example of how to deal with life. Who doesn't admire people with that kind of character? When asked they will tell you that they owe their peace to God. The fact that they have this quality and those who don't wish they had it too, tells us something. The peace from God is like a missing component, we have an empty socket for it in our mind, we feel incomplete without it, those who don't have it try to use substitutions for it. Humans are incomplete without God, we need his guidance, we unsuccessfully try to fill the void with human philosophy. We were never designed to go it alone, we can't even govern ourselves well. Watching the human race is like watching squabbling children in a sandbox. Only the earth is our sandbox and the children have nuclear weapons and are destroying their sandbox at an ever increasing rate. It is inarguable that we have a real need for God. The need does imply existence, for how can you need something that never existed.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear Rahvin; If that was the case, I would indeed be guilty of being very arrogant. To base one's view of what is true merely on your own opinion, is self deception and foolish in the extreme. My religious views are all based on scripture, not creed or opinion. We can argue over interpretations of scripture, but we will need to be very specific and go over each point one by one. I have had many discussions on the board on some points, so feel free to check my message index and see what I have already posted on different points. So decide which point you wish to debate and I will be happy to show you scripturally why I believe it. But since you don't accept the Bible as the being our guide in this matter, we should probably start with how to prove that it is from God. Yes measuring or comparing the subjective is a problem here. To simplify, for this thread I am using the concept of three levels of inner peace, 1st a general sense of well being, 2d: a deeper inner peace that is not dependant things being nice, 3d: the peace from God, an inner peace that is unbreakable. Very arbitrary, but we do need some qualification of what we are talking about.Measuring one's level of inner peace is very subjective, but the type of peace can be inferred by how a person describes it and what they attribute it to. If some one states that they have inner peace because they have a nice life, that is what I would call type 1 general inner peace. If they say that they have an inner peace that is not dependant on things being nice, that is 2 or maybe even three. Now since 3 or peace from God, is from God, only God can say for sure. But we can look for evidence such as a person's having weathered horrible events and maintaining a peaceful outlook. Sure, any one can have these minor sources of inner peace without God. But you are also terribly wrong here as this kind of inner peace is destroyed all too easily. "if you take away the child, the parent still knows that they raised a good and decent person." So the poor kid dies a horrible senseless death, and the parent doesn't lose their sense of inner peace because they know they did a good job raising the kid? Gone forever for no reason, and the parent just accepts this and deals with it. This may work on paper but not in the real world. Did you forget about Love? Parents love their children, and the death of a child is one of the hardest loses anyone ever has to face. Trying to console one's self with "well I know I was a good parent" is about as comforting as that stupid line you used to hear "God needed another little angel". Nether line does nothing about filling the huge hole in your heart. There is only one thing that can, and that is hope, hope of the resurrection, that one day you will see your child again. The peace from God in this case gives you complete confidence that God will one day raise your child. It is hope based on your total trust in God. Then there is also the comfort of prayer, and of reading the verses in the Bible about the resurrection. Just ignore for a moment about whether nor not you think it is real, which is more comforting, the kids gone but I was a good parent, or I know that I will see my kid again in the resurrection? Your whole premise of finding comfort in thinking that you did what you could, seems dependant on not really caring, of just forgetting about it and being able to let go. For people who really care, such thinking is nearly worthless, it may help with reducing guilt, but for real emotional lost, it doesn't work since a parent who really loved his child can never let go or forget. True love is forever and the love between a parent and a child is one of deepest loves that there is. A loving parent even with the hope of the resurrection, always misses their child and thinks of them everyday. It is a horrible lost, but the hope of the resurrection and the peace of God helps you focus on the future and helps you cope with your lost. You pray a lot and God carries you through. In short you still love and remember your child instead of trying to forget and put it behind you, which is not dealing with it, that is just trying to bury it. OEM is the best. Yes God does have a monopoly on the hope of life after death. Who has greater peace, the man who accepts death or the man who knows God will bring him back from the dead? For those who believe in the resurrection, death is like falling asleep until God wakes you. For the person without that hope, death is a one way door to nowhere, to be ok with that you really have to not care. If you love life, how can you be ok about losing it and never getting it back? When someone puts a gun to your head, it really focuses your thinking and a lot of nonsense you have believed in just evaporates. I don't think just accepting death will cut it then for most people, probably just leave you with panic. I am sure that it worked for some, but considering the way our minds work, it is a very difficult thing to do. Few people have that much detachment from life. Just look at the difference, the contented atheist has to let go of life forever while the theist loves life and looks forward to coming back to life. The theist has hope, the atheist has nothing. The contented atheist outlook isn't very healthy for your mind since it is so bleak. I have heard it said that the one thing man can not live without is hope, the contented atheist would disprove that, if having no hope can said be said to be living for in a way they have already died in their heart. First I was speaking about human philosophy without believing in God, people of non-Christian religions are still theists. But non-Christian religions do have a greater difficulty dealing with the issue of death and it is only in the Bible that we find satisfying answers to our spiritual questions, like why does God permit evil? Why do we die? etc. Without real answers, or real hope, they have far less foundation for maintaining inner peace when faced with calamity in comparison with what is found in God's Word.
Second, I was speaking in general terms about the philosophy itself. The philosophy of men falls apart when up against the problems of the world. If the philosophy of men was up to the task, we would have solved our problems by now, but we haven't and we can't. Without God we have no hope. What hope does a godless philosophy offer the parent of a dead child? What comfort for their grief? The fact that some can embrace dying doesn't do any good for the rest of us who love life and want to go on living. As for people not giving up hope, what hope does an atheist have? If he buys it, it is over. Being in a foxhole under bombardment, a soldier is faced with nearly certain death, and is convinced he is about to die, under those conditions people become religious nearly to the last man. A tour of duty in Iraq is in comparison a cake walk, few would go if they viewed it as a death sentence. While not as stressful as certain death, I would expect that under the stress an increase in religiousness including some former atheists.Here is what the US army states on the subject. http://www.bragg.army.mil/528CSC/FM22-51Ch3.htmSincerely Yours; Wm Scott AndersonThis message has been edited by wmscott, 07-11-2005 05:28 PM

Dear crashfrog; The only religion today that really follows the Bible is Jehovah's Witnesses. Were you once a Witness? Were you baptized? and were you disfellowshipped? Then it is not True inner peace if it doesn't come from God. You can find inner peace without God, but it is only a relative type of peace. Like outer peace, peace or the absence of war, is not true peace. True peace is when you know that there will never be another war and there is no conflict at all nor the prospect of any. Merely accepting what appears to be your fate can give you a sense of inner peace, but it is not True inner peace. It is like you are in a crowded burning building with no way out, you sit down and feel peaceful because you accept that you are going to die, while I after finding an exit, feel real inner peace knowing I will be able to escape the fire. Your peace is one of death, mine is of hope, that is why I say your peace isn't true or real.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear Sidelined; Reality-the quality or state of being real.Since the religious part of my world view is founded on the Bible, the first step in logically proving that what I believe in is real, is to prove that the Bible is the inspired word of God. In this discussion, it should be merely necessary to prove that the Bible contains elements that could not have been of human origin to prove it as having a supernatural source. Do you agree that would be sufficient? Once that is accomplished, and if you are willing to accept that fact into your worldview, then we can use the Bible as an authoritative reference to systematically prove what I believe in. I do find that while nearly everyone claims to be very logical in their reasons for what they believe, in actual practice, they believe what they want. I find that this applies to nearly everyone and I sometimes catch myself doing this too despite my best efforts to avoid such silly nonsense. So try to keep an open mind, I do.First let us consider what the Bible is not by a brief comparison to the Book Of Mormon. The BOM has no historical background, there is no BOM archeology any more than there is Oz archeology. Shortly after the BOM was published, numerous historical errors were pointed out that clearly revealed the book to be a complete fraud. DNA studies have also conclusively proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, that the Jewish migration to the Americas described in the BOM, never occurred. Repeatedly the BOM has over and over again been completely discredited as being historically true, and there has never been presented any historical evidence that clearly supported any of the events as having taken place. That is what a complete fraud looks and smells like.Now in the case of the Bible, the places described are real and many of the historical events described are attested to by historians and archeology. Disputes over biblical history are focused on details or certain parts, the over all history described in the Bible is known to be factual and is not questioned as is the case with the BOM. As for the disputes, our knowledge of ancient events is not total, so omission is not in itself evidence for non occurrence and sometimes ancient historians maybe in error on some points. Since total historical accuracy is not essential to proving my argument, it is enough at this point to say that the Bible is a historical book relating real events that for the most part are accepted as having occurred.Then there is the great age of the Bible which is frequently stated to be the oldest of all the major religious books. Much of the history recorded was written by eye witness of the events. Some critics claim some portions were written later then stated, but there little to support such claims so there is no real reason that things were not written as claimed. But this is again a side point to our discussion.My last side point I want to mention, is that the Bible is literature, it is well written. Most ancient religious books are not. Even the books are not part of the Word of God that some tried to add the Bible, are from what I have seen, of a noticeably lower writing caliber, like someone tried to slip a few pages of a comic book into a well written book. The power and beauty contained in the pages of the Bible are breath taking and is universally acknowledged. Whatever the Bible is, it is something to be taken seriously, it is not some obvious fraud like the BOM. In short, the Bible has all the markings of what it claims to be, there are no obvious errors like the BOM to discredit it. To decide whether or not the Bible is actually inspired requires a detailed investigation, those who have made a decision one way or the other without doing so, do not know what they are talking about. Many have done this and such opinions favorable or not, are of course of no value since they are not based on the evidence. Considering how important the Bible's claim of being the word of God is, it is an issue that each person should really consider the evidence in detail for themselves to make their own informed discission rather than taking the word of others. So any brief account of the evidence I can provide here, can only be a starting point for such a study. So rather than attempting to conclusively cover everything, I will cover a few key highlights that should be enough show that there is evidence of supernatural influence in the writing of the Bible.The most obvious point and also the most frequently cited, is that the Bible contains very specific prophecies that were fulfilled right down to the last detail. Not the broad open ended vague to the point of being meaningless type that can be twisted by anyone to mean anything, but prophecies that are so clear and accurate that critics try to claim they were written after the events since even they know that no man could have written them on their own. The problem with the critics claim is the evidence shows the books like Daniel were written when stated [Ezekiel was a prophet in Jerusalem at the same time Daniel was in Babylon and refers to Daniel several times by name. (Ezekiel 14:14, 20; 28:3)], and Daniel contains prophecies that reach down to our day and beyond anyway.In Daniel is found the prophecy of seventy weeks of years, (Daniel 9:25-27) "from the going forth of [the] word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah [the] Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times. "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. "And the city and the holy place the people of a leader that is coming will bring to their ruin. And the end of it will be by the flood. And until [the] end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations. "And he must keep [the] covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease." First the prophecy predicts the rebuilding of Jerusalem, and from the time of the word or command to rebuild the city, there would be a time period 69 weeks of years or 483 years until the Messiah would appear, in the year 29 AD. The Jews of the first century understood this prophecy and were expecting the Messiah to appear in that year. (Luke 3:15) "Now as the people were in expectation and all were reasoning in their hearts about John: "May he perhaps be the Christ?" After the appearance of the Messiah there is the last week of the 70 weeks, in the middle of that week, or after three and half years after he appeared as Messiah, the Messiah would be 'cut off' which is an OT reference to being executed. That is of course exactly what happened, Jesus was executed after a three and half year ministry. At that time he stopped the need for sacrifices by his which was what they had all pictured, the reality replaced the symbolic. Then after his death, the covenant is still keep in force for another half week of years, or three and half years. This covenant in the prophecy is one week of years long, 7 years, and ran from the start of Jesus' ministry until three and half years after his death. This covenant was for the Jews, that because of their special position, Jesus preached only to the Jews and those associated with the Jewish faith, and this continued until Cornelius the first Gentile to accept Jesus as the Messiah.This prophecy by itself is enough to prove a supernatural influence in the writing of the Bible, and yet it is only one of many prophecies found in the book of Daniel, and Daniel is but one of the many prophetic books of the Bible. Jesus literally fulfilled hundreds of OT prophecies, many of them concerned specific details like which city he was to born in, etc. No man could have known these details in advance, yet over and over again in the Bible we find these fantastic prophecies made long in advance being fulfilled in exact detail, and not just by some kind of long shot chance since there are no misses. If humans were doing the guessing, we would expect a huge number of guesses, with perhaps a few getting a hit once in a while. But somehow the prophecies in the Bible have this amazing accuracy.Another point I would like to use to show that the Bible is the word of God, is not commonly used probably because it takes some understanding to see it, but I would like to give it a try. In the Bible there is an interconnectedness, prophecies, phrases and words found in one book of the Bible have a connection with another book of the Bible. Like with the prophecies of the messiah, they are not all in the book of Daniel, they are found throughout the OT, and they all converge. It is like having a bunch of people shooting at a target from different angles and all hitting it, but they can't see the target because it is in the future, and they don't know each other because they are shooting from different times in the past and they didn't even know what the target was or were or when it would be in most cases. Yet some how they all hit the target. It is not just convergence of biblical prophecies that ties the books together, phrases and terms used in one book are defined by another, like one writer explaining a term or prophet phrase that another writer will use hundreds of years later in another book. (Genesis 3:14-15) "And Jehovah God proceeded to say to the serpent: . . . And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel." Today we know that the serpent is the Devil and his seed is those who follow him, the woman is God's heavenly organization and the woman's seed is Jesus Christ. The prophecy finds it's fulfillment in Christ's dying a temporary death, the heel wound, and the serpents head burse will be fulfilled with the coming execution of the Devil. How did Moses or anyone else know to write this? It ties right in with what John wrote at Revelation 12:1-5 "And a great sign was seen in heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of twelve stars, and she was pregnant. And she cries out in her pains and in her agony to give birth. And another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems; and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child. And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne." I will not go into all the details, the stars are angels by the way, but you can see the parallelism between the two prophecies. John's was written after Jesus' death and has fulfillment in our time period and beyond. From Genesis to Revelation there is this interconnectedness of what is in one book shedding light on what is said in another, basically like someone took the pieces of a puzzle and scattered them throughout the pages of Bible. Each single piece doesn't mean much by itself and the writer probably didn't understand it just as you probably don't understand much of that above quote from Revelation, (Daniel 12:8-9) "Now as for me, I heard, but I could not understand; so that I said: "O my lord, what will be the final part of these things?" And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end." because each prophet and/or writer was given only one or just a few pieces of the puzzle, they could not deduce the whole, so they had no knowledge of how what they wrote would fit in with what would be written later and how all it would all come together. So no human could have engineered this, it required an intelligence that knew what was going to happen in the future, and was in existence over the whole time span the prophecies were recorded and was able to inspire the Bible writers with what they need to write. Once you can see this pattern in the Bible for yourself, it is a convincing proof of God, but to see it takes a thorough study of the Bible.This post as long as it is, was only meant to give you an idea of how the Bible gives amble proof of it's being inspired by God and of God's existence. To pursue this further, to be able to see this for yourself, I would recommend reading the following books.A Bible along with the following:
"Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy!" For a verse by verse study of Daniel and it's prophecies.
"The BibleGod's Word or Man's?" Evidence that the Bible is inspired.Both books are published by Jehovah's Witnesses and are not for sale anywhere, but instead are available without cost from Jehovah's Witnesses. Whom getting in touch with, should not be a problem. Just ask for the book or books by name and they will arrange for you to get a copy. If there are no local Witnesses in your area, you can try on the web at http://www.watchtower.org/ or you can e-mail me and I will see what I can do.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear Firebird; Ask her yourself and find out, besides you really should spend some time with your brother and his wife. A Witness always keeps the door of hope open, hopefully her husband, children and parents will listen before it is too late. Our peace from God enables us to cope with difficult situations and we always trust God to be merciful and to be a perfect judge of what is in a person's heart. We also do not decide who will or will not survive Armageddon, that is for God to decide, we can't say one way or the other whether a specific non-Witness (or Witness for that matter) will survive Armageddon. Also we are not just concerned about our just our own family, we are concerned about everyone, it is our endeavor to preach the Good News of the Kingdom to everyone so that everyone has the opportunity of choosing to serve God. But we also realize that since Jesus said (Matthew 7:13-14) "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it." most people will reject God and die at Armageddon. We still have True inner peace just like Noah did when he knew what was coming upon the world of his day. We know God is righteous and have total trust in his judgement, only those who should die at Armageddon, will die. We don't fear Armageddon, we look forward to it. (Luke 21:9-28) "For these things must occur first, but the end does not [occur] immediately . . . But as these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift YOUR heads up, because YOUR deliverance is getting near." Armageddon is not just the destruction of the wicked, it is the deliverance of the righteous. It is a wonderful hope, the coming establishment of the Messianic Kingdom on earth.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear Crashfrog; Prove it. I have never found another religion that truly follows the Bible, if you know of one, I would really like to hear about. I don't think you have ever had true inner peace, so you don't have anything to compare yours with and as a result don't know what you are talking about. Read my post to Rahvin on the measure of True inner peace, and tell me that is the kind of peace that you have.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear Rahvin; The hope of the resurrection is the only hope of seeing your dead loved one again, reincarnation doesn't offer that hope. Reincarnation is a poor sort of hope anyway, since even if there was any truth in it, the person has no memory of their past life, the mind is wiped clean. If that happened, the person is gone, reincarnation of a vegetable, would be the result. For without what is in our minds that makes us who we are, we would be nothing, brain dead. The hope of the resurrection is the only real hope, non-Christian religions have nothing in comparison and their explanations for evil and other things fall just as short. Most importantly of course, is that fact that man made religions have make believe hope, since it isn't from Jehovah God.Yes an atheist could at least take pride about having raised their child, but they have no hope at all, just bleak acceptance. Perhaps some atheists do manage to maintain a positive outlook on life after such a lost, but they have to do it without any hope. Those who do, are a testimony to their personal strength, not to the strength of the philosophy of atheism. There is no comfort or real inner peace (the kind built on hope) in atheism. As a group, I would expect that those who have real faith in the resurrection cope far better then a group of atheists. I have seen a very marked difference between Jehovah's Witnesses everyone else in coping with the lost of a loved one in death, ours is a measured grief, like the child has been whisked away to a far country without our consent, but we know he will return to us in time. While for others, the grief is total. And what hope does an atheist have in the face of death? If they have no hope, then they are hopeless, if they have accepted death then they are in a way already dead inside.Most christians are such in name only as you know already, hypocrites are never at peace, and since most christian religions follow the word of man rather than the Word of God, they are a poor example anyway. Reading something is not a guarantee of comprehending it. (Acts 8:30-31)" "Do you actually know what you are reading?" He said: "Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?"" It takes a thorough study of the Bible to find the answers to these questions, a person just reading it on their own, would be unlikely to the answers on their own. Which is why Jehovah's Witnesses offer to study the Bible free of charge with anyone who would like find them. We also offer Bible study books free to people who would like to read them and learn these things. So the fact that some have looked into the Bible and not found any answers doesn't mean that they are not there. If you want to know what they are, like why does god permit wickedness?; I would be happy to show it to you from the Bible. And in actually going door to door, and talking to people of other religions, I can tell you that they do not have satisfying answers to these questions. We had THOUSANDS OF YEARS under the philosophies of false religion. Jesus warned, (Matthew 7:15-20) "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep's covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men]." when a religion does evil things, it shows itself to be evil. Christ said of such people, (Matthew 7:22-23) "Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?' And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness." all religions that produce bad fruit are not true followers of Christ. It is easy to spot these false religions by their long histories of evil deeds and by the fact that what they teach is in conflict with what Jesus taught. Jesus taught his followers to be no part of the world, to be peaceable towards all men, loving them as they would love themselves.The scientific advancement of our day is very impressive, but what good is it without moral advancement? We make better medicines, but we make better weapons too. I am all in favor of science, but it is only a tool, a way of finding better ways of doing things. It doesn't give us morals to live by or answer the questions that are in our heart, because science is about how, not why.If you wish to tout secular societies, why not consider the former USSR? Surely as an atheistic society it was the best of all countries in which to live. (LOL) As I mentioned before, it is hard to measure some one's inner peace, and how do you tell if his inner peace is unbreakable? The answer of course is simple, you see if can be broken. Now I am claiming that Jehovah God, the God of the Bible and the God of Jesus (John 20:17) and Abraham, gives his true followers an unbreakable inner peace. I am also claiming that only Jehovah's Witnesses are true follows of Jehovah God and his son Christ Jesus, and they are the only ones who have been given the unbreakable peace from God.To test this assertion, one would need to round up a large number of Jehovah's Witnesses and subject them years of imprisonment with harsh treatment, torture, starvation and surround them with death and the threat of death. You would also set it up, so that all they have to do is sign a paper renouncing their faith, and they can walk out the door free. You would also show them you mean business by executing some of those who have refused to sign. Maximum phycological pressure would be applied, if our inner peace is truly unbreakable, you would expect the majority or at least a substantial percentage to be able to hold on to their inner peace as demonstrated by their keeping their faith by refusing to renounce it despite all hardship.As evil and demonic as this thought experiment sounds, it has all ready been done, in Germany durning the second world war. Jehovah's Witnesses obeying God first, and man second, refused to break God's laws and serve in Hitler's armies or to give any support to the evil actions of the Nazi political party and remained neutral. The Nazi's viewed Jehovah's Witnesses as a direct idealogical threat and did everything in their power to root them out and destroy them. They didn't want to just kill them, they wanted to destroy them ideologically, they needed to discredit them by breaking them and making them renounce their faith. The full power of the Nazi war machine was turned on a small religious group who preached peace and merely wanted to be left alone. Would the True inner peace from God that Jehovah's Witnesses have received, fail? Here is what happened. The Nazi State and the New Religions: Five Case Studies in Non-Conformity: A Triumph of the Will: The Jehovah's Witnesses Purple Triangles: A Story of Spiritual Resistance Jehovah’s Witnesses - Holocaust Teacher Resource CenterA few more relevant links. Holocaust Encyclopedia | United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
Jehovah's Witnesses and the Holocaust introduction
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1998/6/1/article_01.htm VA JOSEFSSON
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/2003/3/1/article_02.htm They Triumphed
Over PersecutionAfter years of trying to break Jehovah's Witnesses, even someone like Himmler saw that we have an unshakable or unbreakable faith. The inner peace and faith of the vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses remained intact and unbroken in harmony with what Paul stated at Romans 8:35-39. "Who will separate us from the love of the Christ? Will tribulation or distress or persecution or hunger or nakedness or danger or sword? Just as it is written: "For your sake we are being put to death all day long, we have been accounted as sheep for slaughtering." To the contrary, in all these things we are coming off completely victorious through him that loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from God's love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."As inspiring as the courageous moral stand taken by Jehovah's Witnesses against the Nazis was, they were alone. All other religious organizations present in Germany at the time, compromised with the Nazis and supported them. Rather than taking the moral stand they should have, they curried favor with Nazis and actively supported them, even fighting and dying in support of the Nazi government. I just have and the evidence is clear that the True followers of Jesus Christ, Jehovah's Witnesses, have an unbreakable inner peace and that no one else has anything like it. In the camps they were a solitary island of peace, surrounded by a raging storm of violence and death. There wasn't any other place of peace, they were alone in the storm.I wish I could say that persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses was fortunately ancient history, but it is not and has continued right down to today. Jehovah's Witnesses still maintain the same stand today as they did then, and remain the only island of real peace.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson

Dear Rahvin; I use the whole Bible back up my claim, I know that doesn't cut any ice with an atheist, but with christians it is the final authority. Everything Jehovah's Witnesses believe is directly supported by scripture. While there are many interpretations there is only one right one, and the way to tell which one is right is that is will agree with the rest of the Bible and no other verses will contradict the correct interpretation. For many of the Bible prophecies we have independent historical confirmation of the fulfillment taking place, and that the prophecy was written long in advance. Just one of the many of these is by itself enough to prove God's existence and there are many. You really should consider the evidence, there is enough to disprove atheism a hundred times over. If you only read what agrees with your beliefs, you learn very little and may never see any errors because you are only looking at it from one point of view.Even in your silly example of The Wheel of Time books, there is one author behind the books, setting everything up so it all works out. Who is doing that for the Bible?Yes we are wandering off topic a bit, I may start another topic on this later when this one is done and I have time for it. But if you want to talk now, there is always e-mail.Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson