In regard to points 98 and 99:
primemover writes:
Creationists don't see a problem here because they accept the possibility of miracles (which to me is another word for something which we cannot explain due to our current understanding of science). There are several items in this list that aren't an issue with creationists so they either need to be changed (so that they do present a challenge to something a creationist does accept) or removed altogether.
The problem with invoking 'miracles' to explain some natural phenomena is that it automatically opens up the consideration they may be used to explain
all natural phenomena.
After all, a powerful enough deity that is determined to 'trick' scientists into believing in the basic principles of natural science could easily create and place the fossils, the unconformities, the tree rings, the ice layers, the coral layers, the rock layers, and so on with the intent to deceive.
It is the study of recent history, namely the last 500 years, that leads one into a position that invoking a deity to explain all natural phenomena is a recipe for failure of state to provide for the common good and ultimately its own survival.
It is the study of religion that leads one into a position that invoking a deity to explain all natural phenomena within the narrow parameters of self-proclaimed infallibility of the 'saved' in interpreting ancient documents is a recipe for requiring the deity to be a liar.
But I digress, ultimately this is a science thread, so miracles, including last-Thursdayism, where all is Matrix-like illusion, are not allowed as valid criticisms of scientific consensus or indeed, of this given reality.
If you disagree with a given point I have made for reasons of scientific evidence, please feel free to start a new thread concerning that exact point. I am fully prepared to back every assertion I have made based upon this reality and the evidence but if you know something I don't, I would sure like to see it.
If you disagree with a given point I have made for reasons of religious or political dogma, please feel free to start a new thread in the appropriate venue.
If you disagree with a given point I have made for reasons of philosophy concerning any assumptions involved in one's perception of reality, once again please feel free to start a new thread in the appropriate venue.
This thread is for a general discussion of the categories and is only meant as a starting point for further discussion. Further detailed examination concerning any debatable aspects of particular points belong in other threads sorted by forum according to the basis for the critique.
So please go ahead and suggest a PNT for any point you disagree with based upon any reason and I will likely participate, God willing.
Edited by anglagard, : change wording to make it clear
Edited by anglagard, : Replace the inaccurate term 'hear' with 'see' as this is forum is primarily visual and not so much audio in conveying information.
Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza