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Author Topic:   Hydroplates unchallenged young earth explains Tectonics shortcomings!
Bill Birkeland
Member (Idle past 2562 days)
Posts: 165
From: Louisiana
Joined: 01-30-2003


Message 80 of 197 (83875)
02-06-2004 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by johnfolton
02-06-2004 8:31 AM


Re: GPS measurements
whatever wrote
"Ned, You said GPS would prove that Hawaii, is
moving, that Walt agrees with you, that they
are moving, JM agrees with you that the
Pacific Plates are moving, but you have
not proved that the Hawaii is moving in
the same direction as JM suggests, by
GPS, or proven Walt agrees with your
movement. You said its a fact, now all
I'm asking for is proof, etc..."
Although this isn't the Hawaiian Islands, the science article in the February 2004, "GSA Today" discusses in detail what has been learned about the movement of tectonic plates within Southeast Asia using GPS technology. This research verifies ongoing plate tectonics, just as well as the Hawaiian Islands. The article is:
Burchfiel, B. C., 2004, 2003 Presidential
Address: New Technology; New Geological
Challenges.GSA Today. vol. 14, no. 2, pp. 4-9.
Until the end of February, the article can be downloaded at the Burchfiel (2004) GSA Today Web page . This web page has links for a PDF file and html version of this paper. Since the free, non-subscription download expires at the end of February, people should go ahead and download the paper if they want a copy.
Yours,
Bill Birkeland

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by johnfolton, posted 02-06-2004 8:31 AM johnfolton has not replied

Bill Birkeland
Member (Idle past 2562 days)
Posts: 165
From: Louisiana
Joined: 01-30-2003


Message 88 of 197 (83920)
02-06-2004 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by johnfolton
02-06-2004 10:59 AM


Re: Moving mountains
whatever wrote:
"your tectonic theory believes these plates are still moving"
If Mr. Whatever would look at the data presented in the article that I referenced in my message 80, he and any lurker would find that it proves proof that plates do move. The article that I noted is:
Burchfiel, B. C., 2004, 2003 Presidential
Address: New Technology; New Geological
Challenges.GSA Today. vol. 14, no. 2, pp. 4-9.
Until the end of February, the article can be downloaded at the Burchfiel (2004) GSA Today Web page. This web page has links for a PDF file and html version of this paper.
There are also other figures showing plate movements documented by high precision Global Positioning System (GPS) surveying technology. Some are:
1. "UNAVCO Brochure Online" at:
Page not found – UNAVCO
2. " GPS Site Motion Vector/Crustal Velocity Archive" at:
UNAVCO
2A. "Composite GPS Velocity Map"
UNAVCO
2B. "plate velocities (yellow vectors) compared with GPS velocities (purple)"
UNAVCO
The above data alone, specifically the excellent agreement between motions predicted by plate tectonic models, clearly demonstrates that Walt Brown is simply wrong about the plates simply floating nad not moving. It really doesn't matter if specific GPS data exists for Hawaii or not. There is more than enough high precision GPS, in addition to an abundance geologic data, to refute the notion that the plates are passive floating.
How does Walt Brown explain the data illustrated in the Composite GPS Velocity Map and plate velocities with GPS velocities. How does Walt brown explain data as shown in similar maps, such as REVEL-2000 published by Sella et val. (2000) at:
UNAVCO
and for the "Taiwan-Luzon region" at:
UNAVCO
This is from:
Sella, G. F., T. H. Dixon, and A. Mao,
REVEL, 2002, A model for recent plate
velocities from space geodesy, Geophysical
Research Letters. 107, 10.1029 2000JB000033.
Yours,
Bill Birkeland
An interesting web page is the "Jules Verne Voyager: Earth" at:
Earth — Jules Verne Voyager | UNAVCO
[This message has been edited by Bill Birkeland, 02-06-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by johnfolton, posted 02-06-2004 10:59 AM johnfolton has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by NosyNed, posted 02-06-2004 11:57 AM Bill Birkeland has not replied
 Message 90 by JonF, posted 02-06-2004 12:09 PM Bill Birkeland has not replied

Bill Birkeland
Member (Idle past 2562 days)
Posts: 165
From: Louisiana
Joined: 01-30-2003


Message 142 of 197 (84390)
02-08-2004 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by johnfolton
02-07-2004 10:38 AM


Hawaiian Bench Marks
In message 130, Mr. whatever asked:
"JonF, It looks like Hawaii is moving, but couldn't find anything
that showed where the bench marks are located on Hawaii, but
then I asked Ned to find the exact GPS bench mark data, someone
gave me tons of sites saying whatever, so likely Hawaii is
moving, the picture was great, all I was asking for was where
are the bench marks they used, how much have these established
bench marks moved(did these marks move or shift), it might be
within all your links, but if these bench marks exists, would
of thought it would of been posted, don't they use GPS on Hawaii
for land surveys, would think this would be common knowledge,
maybe the islands are shifting but not in the right direction,
etc..."
The "benchmark" used by the Western Pacific Integrated Network of GPS (WING), Pacific GPS Facility (PGF), and UNAVCO for their GPS data collection is a dedicated antenna and dome ground station at Kokee Park, Hawaii, USA (KOKB). This ground station is not a "benchmark" like the metal monuments attached to concrete pilings or metal rods planted into the ground. Rather, it is a dedicated structure used as a base stations for GPS research by NASA, USGS, various universities, and so forth. In part, it serves as a base station for USGS GPS research into predicting volcanic activity of Hawaiian volcanoes using GPS monitoring of ground movement. It is a rather expensive installation designed and built specifically not to move or shift with time and be an ultrastable location for research using satellite GPS techniques.
The locational data for the Kokee Park ground station is given in great detail in 1. Kokee Park Geophysical Observatory along with
http://sopac.ucsd.edu/scripts/dbLocateSite.cgi?site=KOKB ;
http://sopac.ucsd.edu/processing/refinedModelDoc.html ;
2. "Monument: BHFHC53R-13533-1999"; and 3. http://archive.unavco.org/query/ps?sid=240
(NOTE: More about UNAVCO can be found at:
Page not found – UNAVCO )
Monument BHFHC53R-13533-1999 is the specific antenna and dome at the Kokee Park Geophysical Observatory dedicated to plate tectonic studies using GPS. A map showing the location of other GPS ground stations in the Pacific Ocean can be found at Pacific GPS Facility (PGF).
Another system used to measure rates of plate tectonic movement is the VLBI System used by the Crustal Dynamics Project at the Kokee Park Geophysical Observatory. It is described in Kokee Park Geophysical Observatory by Clyde A. Cox and
http://ivs.crl.go.jp/mirror/publications/ar2001/nskpgo/
" Kokee Park Geophysical Observatory is located on the Island
of Kauai in the Hawaiian Islands, Kauai is the most northwestern
(inhabited) Island. The site is in a State Park (Kokee State
Park) hence its name. It is located at an elevation of 1100
meters near the Waimea Canyon, which is often referred to as
the Grand Canyon of the Pacific"
The above web pages provide all of technical specifications that the technical people need. They also provide email addresses of people, who can likely answer any questions that a person might have about the ground stations.
Bill Birkeland

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by johnfolton, posted 02-07-2004 10:38 AM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by johnfolton, posted 02-08-2004 2:06 AM Bill Birkeland has not replied

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