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Author Topic:   Just What is (and what is wrong with) Political Correctness?
docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 1 of 302 (341926)
08-21-2006 12:15 PM


In the "On Judging Others" thread, I asked robinrohan to tell me what he meant when he described something as PC. His response was:
robinrohan writes:
The term "politically correct" was originally a joke among liberals having to do mostly with race, gender, and groups of various sorts that might be discriminated against, such as people in wheelchairs. So the liberals had to be real careful not to offend anybody, such as calling a disabled person a "cripple" or something of that sort. The joke consisted of taking this agenda to the extreme. Through the years, the term "political correctness" came to stand for this agenda of not discriminating against anybody. In other words, we must not judge, for if we do we might offend somebody or some group.
Another slogan of political correctness is being "inclusive." Exclusivity is evil; inclusiveness is good.
Traditional Christianity, for example, is exclusive and therefore evil by politically correct standards.
New Age Christianity, such as Jar's religion, is inclusive and therefore good by politically correct standards.
Political correctness is a pretense.
Wikipedia defines it thusly:
Wikipedia writes:
Political correctness (also politically correct, P.C. or PC) is a term used to describe language that is calculated to provide a minimum of offense, particularly to the racial, cultural, or other identity groups being described. The concept typically refers to the English language, but is not exclusive to it. A text that conforms to the ideals of political correctness is said to be politically correct.
I would agree that classifying something as "PC" means it is language that is phrased in the least offensive way possible. Are there any differing opinions? And is there anything wrong with something being "politically correct"?
My own poorly-thought out opinion: attempting to minimize offense is good, but I think it is unreasonable for people to expect that they won't be offended by things as they move about the world.

The American Drivel Review

Replies to this message:
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docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 4 of 302 (341978)
08-21-2006 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by robinrohan
08-21-2006 2:07 PM


It's a moral system. It's also a political agenda.
I'd love it if you could explain this further. I'm afraid I don't understand what exactly you mean or why you think this.
My problem with it is that it seems to try to dictate feelings. We are supposed to go around feeling nice, politically correct feelings all the time. But people aren't that way. Thus they sometimes PRETEND to have such feelings. That's why I call it a pretense.
Well this seems to describe a problem with the people using it as a moral system more so than the concept itself. I would agree with you that people shouldn't be expected to go around having nice, politically correct feelings. I do wonder what is wrong in attempting to be inoffensive to others around you even if you're having politically incorrect feelings.

The American Drivel Review

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 Message 6 by robinrohan, posted 08-21-2006 2:36 PM docpotato has replied

docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 12 of 302 (342014)
08-21-2006 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by robinrohan
08-21-2006 2:36 PM


"PC" is rather hard to pin down, but we can make a start: It came out of the Civil Rights movement and the feminist movement. The idea is to get rid of prejudice, to eradicate it completely--any prejudice, all prejudice. The problem with this is that people are naturally prejudiced and tribal by nature.
Well, I'm not sure the goal is to eradicate all prejudice. But I'll go along. I agree that people are naturally prejudiced/tribal by nature.
People are "naturally" a lot of things. This, of course, does not mean it necessarily has to remain this way. I'm sure tribalism and prejudice can be both beneficial and damaging. From what I know, PC language exists to help structure people's thinking so that they have both the language and the mental structures to aid them in negotiating those tribal/prejuidical urges that they or others find damaging.
Oh and I like this a lot:
"Like earlier crusades against antisocial ideas, the mission [of purism or pc] is fueled by good (if cocksure) intentions and a genuine sense of urgency. Some kinds of error are held to be intolerable . . .
I think the urgency and intolerable aspects are both flaws in the way people use the concept of political correctness.

The American Drivel Review

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docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 28 of 302 (342047)
08-21-2006 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Dan Carroll
08-21-2006 4:13 PM


Re: PC rules--just a stab at it
What you can do, however, is pay attention to your responses, and understand when your actions are offensive.
It's impossible to live without taking a crap. It's possible, and advisable, to not crap your pants in public.
What's your secret?

The American Drivel Review

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 30 of 302 (342052)
08-21-2006 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by robinrohan
08-21-2006 3:21 PM


Re: PC rules--just a stab at it
My own ideas:
1. Be prepared and willing to question your own assumptions about others when confronted with evidence to the contrary.
2. Examine, recognize, and take steps to improve discriminatory behavior in yourself... maybe also for others.
3. Be aware that the words you use have an effect on other people and use this awareness to do the least amount of harm with your language.
4. A robot must not harm a human being or allow a human being to be harmed through inaction.
5. No dancing.
Edited by docpotato, : added "maybe also" because I'm not sure if I think one should be taking steps to improve other people's behavior.

The American Drivel Review

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docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 41 of 302 (342068)
08-21-2006 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by robinrohan
08-21-2006 4:38 PM


Re: PC rules--just a stab at it
Sterotyping is inevitable. It's just a pejorative term for "classifying." That's how we think. We classify. Stereotypes can come in very subtle packages.
Yes this is true. Our classifications have the capacity for being wrong as well. Should they be corrected?

The American Drivel Review

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 48 of 302 (342085)
08-21-2006 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by robinrohan
08-21-2006 4:51 PM


Re: PC rules--just a stab at it
To say we must not stereotype is very misleading.
Indeed. The usage of the word "stereotype" is probably as hard to pin down as "politically correct". You said it was a pejorative term for "classify" and I tend to think it is commonly used to mean "a classification with little or no first-hand information about that which is being classified"
That this is often seen as "bad," particuarly with regard to how one relates to other people, is interesting to me too.
Of course PC doesn't really help this. There's no real difference between "all wetbacks are thieves" and "all Latin-Americans are theives" I think the goal of such name-changes is that enough people felt that words like "wetback" contained within themselves such derogatory statements as above that they would not be tolerated.

The American Drivel Review

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docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 84 of 302 (342168)
08-21-2006 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
08-21-2006 9:16 PM


English needs a gender-neutral singular pronoun for hypotheticals.

The American Drivel Review

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 08-21-2006 9:16 PM Faith has replied

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docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 139 of 302 (342332)
08-22-2006 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by Faith
08-22-2006 9:49 AM


Re: mr manners (oops)
Can't deal with the true meaning of what's being said, I guess. So much easier to smear your opponent as a racist. Typical mindless categorizing kneejerk PC.
This is why I started the thread. Is this really an example of Political Correctness??? I don't get how it is "PC". PLEASE explain.

The American Drivel Review

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docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 158 of 302 (342363)
08-22-2006 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by Faith
08-22-2006 10:25 AM


It is not PC to be PC
I don't really know if that's true or not. I'm certainly not able to disagree with you because one does see this behavior. And in this case, I, personally, didn't see anything that inspired people calling you Scarlett either. It's interesting though that the way you're using the phrase PC is as dismissive and simplistic in its use as someone calling you a racist. Using a broad brush to paint your opponent, force them into a a preconception that you hold, etc.

The American Drivel Review

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Faith, posted 08-22-2006 11:58 AM docpotato has replied

docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 162 of 302 (342374)
08-22-2006 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Faith
08-22-2006 11:58 AM


Re: It is not PC to be PC
It's all a matter of whether it's actually true or not. You can decide that for yourself, but you can't rightly deal with it formulaically by simply pointing out a superficial similarity between my descriptions and theirs.
Well, through this, one does learn that the methods of indictment are often the same. That's part of dealing with it. I just have been seeing the PC label brandished so often and readily, it often seems like it means nothing other than "You're disagreeing with me too much and too regularly." Your use seems more consistent than, say, Robinrohan's use, though.

The American Drivel Review

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docpotato
Member (Idle past 5076 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 173 of 302 (342389)
08-22-2006 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Faith
08-22-2006 12:46 PM


Re: It is not PC to be PC
Faith writes:
You are personalizing something that is not personal,
This part isn't personal at all:
Dan Carroll writes:
There's no force of authority. No physical force. Just people reacting to what others say and do by saying they think poorly of the person (denouncing them) for what they say and do. Even if it is extreme, it's still just variations on responding to someone's attitude by saying, "Geez, what a dick."
Edited by docpotato, : No reason given.

The American Drivel Review

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