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Author
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Topic: Cartoons and common sense
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 9 of 259 (284141)
02-05-2006 1:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 8 by iano
02-05-2006 12:07 PM
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iano,
I don't see anything particularily unreasonable about the muslim reaction to these cartoons. If the reaction is consistant with the tenets of their belief system they why would they be expected to react any differently? If I choose a fictional/historical character & threaten to kill people if muslims portray them, they'll probably be pissed off too. The reason, I am told, that the prophets can't be portrayed as an image is to prevent idolatry. So don't portray them, then. But I want to be an idolater & they can mind their own fucking business. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 8 by iano, posted 02-05-2006 12:07 PM | | iano has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 11 of 259 (284150)
02-05-2006 2:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 10 by iano
02-05-2006 1:30 PM
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iano,
iano writes: I don't see anything particularily unreasonable about the muslim reaction to these cartoons.
mark writes: But I want to be an idolater & they can mind their own fucking business.
iano writes: Which was precisely my point... This makes no sense. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by iano, posted 02-05-2006 1:30 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 16 by iano, posted 02-05-2006 2:26 PM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 13 of 259 (284152)
02-05-2006 2:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 12 by Modulous
02-05-2006 2:04 PM
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Modulous, I could say the same about them... Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 12 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2006 2:04 PM | | Modulous has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 14 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2006 2:11 PM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 15 of 259 (284154)
02-05-2006 2:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 14 by Modulous
02-05-2006 2:11 PM
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Modulous, In which case you'll have to explain. This has shot so high over my head it must be in orbit. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2006 2:11 PM | | Modulous has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 17 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2006 2:51 PM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 18 of 259 (284164)
02-05-2006 3:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 16 by iano
02-05-2006 2:26 PM
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iano,
Mod has put my position up in a different way. Does it make sense? Is it that as an idolator I am game for their displeasure? Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by iano, posted 02-05-2006 2:26 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 49 by iano, posted 02-06-2006 8:14 AM | | mark24 has not replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 19 of 259 (284166)
02-05-2006 3:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 17 by Modulous
02-05-2006 2:51 PM
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Re: Muslim reaction
Modulous, And if I want to kill people that don't want me to be an idolator then they reasonably can't complain if their position is to threaten death to idolators. The point is that I can do what I like, tough titty to them. The very reason the satirical cartoons were made in the first place is because this is how they act. Mark This message has been edited by mark24, 02-05-2006 03:31 PM
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 17 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2006 2:51 PM | | Modulous has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 24 of 259 (284196)
02-05-2006 4:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 22 by Silent H
02-05-2006 4:08 PM
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Re: Muslim reaction
holmes,
Thus its sort of silly to pick them out as being something special. I'm not.
I think it was factually incorrect to project mohammed as supportive of terrorism. I agree, but that's not the objection that has been made. At least, every muslim I've heard complain has cited the "no images of prophets" as their argument. They could in my eyes have made (& I'm sure some have) a perfectly legitimate argument along these lines. Instead, we are to have their religion foisted upon us. Even a drawing of mohammed helping the poor would draw the same complaint. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 22 by Silent H, posted 02-05-2006 4:08 PM | | Silent H has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 35 by Silent H, posted 02-06-2006 6:14 AM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 26 of 259 (284199)
02-05-2006 4:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 21 by Modulous
02-05-2006 3:37 PM
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Re: Muslim reaction
Modulous,
They can complain all they like, why can't they reasonably complain? Is it reasonable to force the entire world to do something that is specific to your religion? Even if that were the case, other religions managed to avoid idolatry by depicting their gods & prophets, at least to no particularly greater level. So even the rationale of not depicting prophets can't be said to be sound. And what could be more idolatrous that the requirement of total submission to the will of Allah? So hypocricy to boot! So no, I don't find their objection "reasonable" in any sense of the word.
Well, yeah. Its like when the white supremacists made comments about some neighbourhood of black people being violent, and to protest the black people rioted. They had a point, then, didn't they? Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2006 3:37 PM | | Modulous has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 27 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2006 5:06 PM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 37 of 259 (284318)
02-06-2006 6:32 AM
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Reply to: Message 35 by Silent H
02-06-2006 6:14 AM
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Re: Muslim reaction
Holmes,
As much as I think the issue is overblown and I support satire, including this stuff, it is pretty blatantly offensive to muslims. It directly connects mohammed to actions they do not want him pictured supporting or doing or being. He spread Islam by the sword, what's wrong with depicting Mohammed as being violent? He was. Associating Mohammed's words & actions with the killers who perpetrate this crap doesn't seem too outlandish to me. The people who are to blame for having their religion depicted in this way are the ones who are threatening violence now. Perhaps the irony is lost... Of course, I can see why Johnny average muslim is upset in being lumped in with the fundies, but then I don't have a problem with their mode of objection. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by Silent H, posted 02-06-2006 6:14 AM | | Silent H has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 41 by Silent H, posted 02-06-2006 7:00 AM | | mark24 has not replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 38 of 259 (284320)
02-06-2006 6:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 27 by Modulous
02-05-2006 5:06 PM
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Re: Muslim reaction
Modulous,
I don't think that's the point, and I don't think Muslims will agree (nor would I) that other religions have avoided idolatry in this case. That's not what I said. I said that other religions have managed to avoid idolatry to no greater level than Islam despite allowing images of their prophets & gods.
I don't think conflating Mohammed and Allah is particularly valid. Again, that's not what I said. The point was that as idolatry goes, it doesn't get greater than the requirement for total submission to the will of god. So why they are hung up on images of prophets leading to idolatry when idolatry is actually a requirement of Islam is anyones guess. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by Modulous, posted 02-05-2006 5:06 PM | | Modulous has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 39 by Modulous, posted 02-06-2006 6:44 AM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 40 of 259 (284322)
02-06-2006 6:55 AM
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Reply to: Message 39 by Modulous
02-06-2006 6:44 AM
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Re: Idolatry
Modulous,
And I don't think Muslims would agree. Irrelevant.
Sounds like equivocation to me. The term idolatry as used in this case refers to the worship of idols. An idol is an object of worship that is not God. Allah is not an idol. My New Oxford defines it thusly; "extreme admiration, love, or reverence for something or someone". But point taken. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 39 by Modulous, posted 02-06-2006 6:44 AM | | Modulous has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 42 by Modulous, posted 02-06-2006 7:05 AM | | mark24 has replied |
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Message 44 of 259 (284334)
02-06-2006 8:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 42 by Modulous
02-06-2006 7:05 AM
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Re: Idolatry
Modulous,
I beg to differ. So do I. They can believe what they like, it's what they can demonstrate, in that case.. Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 42 by Modulous, posted 02-06-2006 7:05 AM | | Modulous has not replied |
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