|
Author
|
Topic: Cartoons and common sense
|
Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
|
|
Message 12 of 259 (284151)
02-05-2006 2:04 PM
|
Reply to: Message 9 by mark24
02-05-2006 1:07 PM
|
|
But I want to be an idolater & they can mind their own fucking business. Isn't going crazy at idolaters their fucking business?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by mark24, posted 02-05-2006 1:07 PM | | mark24 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 13 by mark24, posted 02-05-2006 2:09 PM | | Modulous has replied |
|
Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
|
|
|
Message 14 of 259 (284153)
02-05-2006 2:11 PM
|
Reply to: Message 13 by mark24
02-05-2006 2:09 PM
|
|
I think that's iano's point.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by mark24, posted 02-05-2006 2:09 PM | | mark24 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 15 by mark24, posted 02-05-2006 2:15 PM | | Modulous has replied |
|
Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
|
|
|
Message 17 of 259 (284160)
02-05-2006 2:51 PM
|
Reply to: Message 15 by mark24
02-05-2006 2:15 PM
|
|
Muslim reaction
If the belief system of muslims says they should crazy because of this, then them going crazy is to be expected. If the belief system of a more liberal non-muslim is that muslims 'should be reasonable', then it is to be expected they would say that.
quote:
Neither are wrong in their reaction unless their belief system is wrong - and it seems that won't be 'proven' one way or the other, for anyone, this side of the grave.
This message has been edited by Modulous, Sun, 05-February-2006 07:52 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 15 by mark24, posted 02-05-2006 2:15 PM | | mark24 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 19 by mark24, posted 02-05-2006 3:21 PM | | Modulous has replied |
|
Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
|
|
|
Message 21 of 259 (284170)
02-05-2006 3:37 PM
|
Reply to: Message 19 by mark24
02-05-2006 3:21 PM
|
|
Re: Muslim reaction
And if I want to kill people that don't want me to be an idolator then they reasonably can't complain if their position is to threaten death to idolators. They can complain all they like, why can't they reasonably complain?
The point is that I can do what I like, tough titty to them. And they can be pissed off for any reason they like, incliding your attitude that you can do what you want.
The very reason the satirical cartoons were made in the first place is because this is how they act. Well, yeah. Its like when the white supremacists made comments about some neighbourhood of black people being violent, and to protest the black people rioted.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by mark24, posted 02-05-2006 3:21 PM | | mark24 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 26 by mark24, posted 02-05-2006 4:55 PM | | Modulous has replied |
|
Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
|
Re: Muslim reaction
They pick themselves out as something special. Their prophet is better than anyone else, their laws should be everyone's laws, their truth is the only truth. I've heard people in the street shout these things at the top of their lungs. Now who's being silly here? Sorry, were you talking about Christianity, Islam or Judaism?
|
Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
|
|
|
Message 27 of 259 (284202)
02-05-2006 5:06 PM
|
Reply to: Message 26 by mark24
02-05-2006 4:55 PM
|
|
Re: Muslim reaction
Is it reasonable to force the entire world to do something that is specific to your religion? I don't think so. Muslims haven't forced me to do something. They have gotten very upset about something their religion says they should get upset about.
Even if that were the case, other religions managed to avoid idolatry by depicting their gods & prophets, at least to no particularly greater level. I don't think that's the point, and I don't think Muslims will agree (nor would I) that other religions have avoided idolatry in this case.
And what could be more idolatrous that the requirement of total submission to the will of Allah? I don't think conflating Mohammed and Allah is particularly valid.
They had a point, then, didn't they? Absolutely.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by mark24, posted 02-05-2006 4:55 PM | | mark24 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 38 by mark24, posted 02-06-2006 6:39 AM | | Modulous has replied |
|
Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
|
Re: Muslim reaction
You think I mentioned three things, don't you? Prophet, laws, and truth. Well, I mentioned four: shouting as well. I bore it mind.
In fact, I cannot remember when I last saw footage of muslims in the street who were not shouting "Allah akbar", which in essence means prophet, laws, and truth. I am talking about Islam. Naturally the media is only going to show interesting or emotive images of muslims. I see Muslims daily, and never heard one actually say that. I've seen plenty of vocal Christians, shouting about Jesus. Now, it might be that Islam is particularly vocal, but its not like there wasn't a lot of shouting going on from Christians if Christ is mocked with non-factual depictions. Imagine the uproar from the Christian right if Christ was depicted having gay sex, performing abortions etc. It might well be silly to pick them out as special, though it seems mostly fair to pick them out as being most vocal.
|
Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
|
Re: Muslim reaction
Christians calling for the decapitation of the maker of the imaginary Christ cartoon. Nor do I see them threatening 9-11 type violence. I can see it (though 'nuke 'em' rather than '9-11 them' would be more apt). I doubt it would be as many Christians saying it than Muslims are saying it now, by any degree, which I agreed with you on. Perhaps Christianity 600 years ago would though...probably trigger a bloodthirsty crusade of rape and torture.
|
Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
|
|
|
Message 39 of 259 (284321)
02-06-2006 6:44 AM
|
Reply to: Message 38 by mark24
02-06-2006 6:39 AM
|
|
Idolatry
That's not what I said. I said that other religions have managed to avoid idolatry to no greater level than Islam despite allowing images of their prophets & gods. And I don't think Muslims would agree.
Again, that's not what I said. The point was that as idolatry goes, it doesn't get greater than the requirement for total submission to the will of god. So why they are hung up on images of prophets leading to idolatry when idolatry is actually a requirement of Islam is anyones guess. Sounds like equivocation to me. The term idolatry as used in this case refers to the worship of idols. An idol is an object of worship that is not God. Allah is not an idol.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by mark24, posted 02-06-2006 6:39 AM | | mark24 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 40 by mark24, posted 02-06-2006 6:55 AM | | Modulous has replied |
|
Modulous
Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: 05-01-2005
|
|
|
Message 42 of 259 (284326)
02-06-2006 7:05 AM
|
Reply to: Message 40 by mark24
02-06-2006 6:55 AM
|
|
Re: Idolatry
Irrelevant. Given that we were discussing things from this point of view:
quote:
If the reaction is consistant with the tenets of their belief system they why would they be expected to react any differently?
I beg to differ.
My New Oxford defines it thusly; "extreme admiration, love, or reverence for something or someone". But point taken. I think that is a later definition. I believe it comes from the Greek eidolon (images) and latreia (worship).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 40 by mark24, posted 02-06-2006 6:55 AM | | mark24 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 44 by mark24, posted 02-06-2006 8:01 AM | | Modulous has not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2