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Author | Topic: Exposing the evolution theory. Part 2 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tangled writes:
No, it isn't. Life cannot just pop in existence by chance - not on this planet, nor on any other planet. Life has to be divinely created. Even the village-idiot knows that.
Life being seeded here from other parts of the galaxy is one possibility
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:None of your references explain how drug resistance evolves and why it takes a billion replications for each adaptive mutation in the Kishony and Lenski biological evolutionary experiments. You are wrong and you know it. That's why you can't post a single quote.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Even the village-idiot knows that. I'm sure you do.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:So, now you claim an LTR is an ERV? Kleinman:That's a relief for those with HIV, they don't have to worry about herpes simplex, herpes zoster, or cytomegalovirus,... affecting them. Kleinman:Sure, we got your nonsensical answer that LTRs are the same as ERVs, LTRs would be ERVs if they had viral protein-coding regions. But you claim you can identify proteins even when they don't exist. So the 10% of LTRs that have some remaining protein-coding regions associated with them, why isn't the LTR altered as well? Kleinman:Is that definition like your definition of an atheist? Are all LTRs identical? Kleinman:You can tell the genetic structure of a protein-coding region from DNA repeats? Tell us what the genetic structure of the protein-coding region is in the 90% of LTRs that have no protein-coding regions. And do fingerprints evolve as genetic sequences do? Kleinman:Is your claim now that the genetic sequences for LTRs never evolve? Explain to us why LTRs don't evolve. Kleinman:Perhaps this will help you with your confusion: Long terminal repeat - Wikipedia A long terminal repeat (LTR) is a pair of identical sequences of DNA, several hundred base pairs long, which occur in eukaryotic genomes on either end of a series of genes or pseudogenes that form a retrotransposon or an endogenous retrovirus or a retroviral provirus. All retroviral genomes are flanked by LTRs, while there are some retrotransposons without LTRs. Typically, an element flanked by a pair of LTRs will encode a reverse transcriptase and an integrase, allowing the element to be copied and inserted at a different location of the genome. Copies of such an LTR-flanked element can often be found hundreds or thousands of times in a genome. LTR retrotransposons comprise about 8% of the human genome.
Do vertebrates have retrotransposons that are not ERVs?
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Do you have to be so obnoxious when you can't explain yourself. Here is the image that you posted showing a simplified representation of a retroviral genome: LTRs represent only a small part of that genetic sequence. Now you say it represents the entire genetic sequence. Can't you get your story straight? Kleinman:You make very silly claims when your illogical argument collapses. You are the one claiming that you can identify the genetic structure of proteins based on LTRs. And your claims become much stranger when you claim that LTRs are ERVs when LTRs are only a very small portion of the genetic structure. Try to stay on point, if you can. Kleinman:Now you are claiming that host genetic structures don't have any DNA repeats. Why would you want to make this claim? Kleinman:Taq, do you think that crossing over or recombination has a marked effect on descent with modification and adaptation? Tell us how an allele can accumulate 5 adaptive mutations using crossing over or recombination. Because that's what it takes to get the high-efficiency beta-lactamase allele to penicillin-type antibiotics.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Are you going to explain to us why it takes a billion replications for each adaptive step in the Kishony and Lenski experiments? Why don't you explain to us why three-drug therapy works for the treatment of HIV? I realize this is hard for you but biological evolution is a thermodynamic process that obeys physical and mathematical laws. Kleinman:You are the one claiming that biologists have explained the evolution of drug resistance. Post a single paper that explains why it takes a billion replication for each adaptive step in the Kishony experiment. Don't forget to put a quote from the paper. You won't because biologists haven't understood or written the paper. Kleinman:Sure I would Taq, it is right here in this paper: For a single selection pressure: The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection And since you are unable to post a quote for your claim, here's one for you. This cycle of the beneficial mutation, followed by amplification of the beneficial mutation, must repeat itself over and over in order for the evolutionary process to have a reasonable probability to occur. Mutation B will not have a reasonable probability of occurring on a member with mutation A until the number of members with mutation A increases and/or the number of generations that members with mutation A can replicate becomes large. Only when the number of members with mutation A and the number of generations that members with mutation A can replicate reach a sufficient amount, there will be a reasonable probability that mutation B will occur on some members with mutation A. And mutation C will not have a reasonable probability of occurring on a member of the subpopulation with mutations A and B until those members with mutation A and B can increase in number sufficiently and/or replicate for a sufficient number of generations for the mutation C event to occur.
Equation (14) from that paper gives the probability equation that explains how much amplification must occur for the next beneficial mutation. You should learn math if you want to understand biological evolution instead of making your wild speculations.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Tangle:There is a reason why Crick brought up the notion of panspermia. When he realized what the structure of DNA is, there is no rational way to explain the evolution of such a molecule.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Dredge:Aren't you going to try to get my papers withdrawn? I gave you the link. In case you missed the papers, here they are. For a single selection pressure: The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection And for multiple simultaneous selection pressures: The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance I'll post the link again to Retraction Watch if you need it.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Dredge writes: No, it isn't. Life cannot just pop in existence by chance - not on this planet, nor on any other planet. Life has to be divinely created. Even the village-idiot knows that. Apparently you don't know it. Life here, on this planet, could have been seeded by asteroids bringing it from elsewhere in our galaxy. Amino acids have been found in asteroids and asteroids have crashed into our planet for billions of years. It would not resolve how life came about elsewhere in the galaxy but it would cause religionists like you some problems. But don't worry, it's unlikely to be a something we will ever know.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Kleinman writes: There is a reason why Crick brought up the notion of panspermia. When he realized what the structure of DNA is, there is no rational way to explain the evolution of such a molecule. Ffs, the idea is older than that damn book you worship so much. “Panspermia (from Ancient Greek πᾶν (pan) 'all ', and σπέρμα (sperma) 'seed') is the hypothesis, first proposed in the 5th century BCE by the Greek philosopher Anaxagoras, that life exists throughout the Universe.”Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Old idea or new idea, Crick brought up the notion of panspermia when he realized that the structure of the DNA molecule was impossible to evolve. Some old ideas are right and some old ideas are wrong. You just don't know which is which.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Kleinman writes: Old idea or new idea, Crick brought up the notion of panspermia when he realized that the structure of the DNA molecule was impossible to evolve. You're going to have to present the evidence for your claim that Crick said DNA could not have evolved. This is what they actually said "Crick and Orgel were careful to point out that Directed Panspermia was not a certainty; but rather a plausible alternative that ought to be taken seriously." Meanwhile, this is an article in Scientific America that outlines his reasons why he thought directed panspermia was a possible explanation for life on earth. It's 50 years ago and no further arguments have been found as far as I'm aware. (Other than the finding of organic material on Mars, meteors and Mercury.) The Origins of Directed Panspermia - Scientific American Blog Network
Some old ideas are right and some old ideas are wrong. You just don't know which is which. I know for certain that you 2,000 year god myth is utter bullshit.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 364 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:I don't need to give that evidence when you give it yourself. "Crick and Orgel were careful to point out that Directed Panspermia was not a certainty; but rather a plausible alternative that ought to be taken seriously." Plausible alternative to what? Kleinman:The Bible and God were here long before you arrived and will be here long after you return to dust.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Kleinman writes: I don't need to give that evidence when you give it yourself. You're not a scientist at all are you? Unfortunately religous nutters like yourself generally lie about these things so please reference your source in the time-honoured way.
Plausible alternative to what?
To life starting here - ie abiogenesis on Earth.
The Bible and God were here long before you arrived and will be here long after you return to dust Oh do grow up.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tangled writes:
Biology for space-cadets. To get from "amino acids" to a living, reproducing organism you need to pull out two items from your atheist bag of tricks - delusion and superstition.
Amino acids have been found in asteroids and asteroids have crashed into our planet for billions of years.
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