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Author | Topic: Should we teach both evolution and religion in school? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
He's been banging the same (very small) drum in informal websites like these for 13 years at least. And in all that time, he's not had the guts to publish his anti-evolutionary theory claims with any degree of honesty in any respected peer reviewed scientific journal. 13 years. The very epitome of a coward.
And you asked him how old he thought the earth was didn't you ? And he didn't have the guts to reply openly. Coward again.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
It's odd isn't it?
Evolution denying has become a thing like holocaust denial and antivax. That's all mad enough but I really don't get religion denying. That's supposed to be against everything they're supposed to believe. I suppose they find a way to justify it to themselves but only them and their god knows how.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18354 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Kleinman writes: Evidently you claim that it is. I see no major problem with the school system in regards to their teaching of biological,sociological,anthropological and mathematical concepts. The topic was more focused on what brand of sacred studies or religious studies should be added to the curriculum.
So this topic is only about teaching 19th century concepts about evolution?Kleinman writes: You really like to push that point that *we* all are mathematically incompetent, don't you? The facts which I see are that Don't you think that biology students should be taught how bacteria evolve resistance to drugs and why cancer treatments fail? Or do you think that biology students only need to be indoctrinated with the notion that fish are their distant relatives? I think this upsets you because you are one of those mathematically incompetent fish-to-mammals aficionados.1) Your view is a minority view pushed by extremists. I see that students are taught quite well in our system. And by the way, how did *you* learn your math and how did *you* learn about drug resistance and better cancer treatments? My basic gripe with you is that you are taking this topic in directions it need not go. Kleinman writes: OK lets assume that they knew what you know. For the bloody sake of argument. What now will happen in the field of study? To me, all that I see is a bunch of students who think like you do. And i'm not sure that would be any better for the teaching profession than what they currently have. OK. We are done with your rabbit trail. Don't rehash your arguments again. This topic *will* remain on course. I've talked to many biologists and biology students over the years and not one could explain the physics and mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski evolutionary experiments."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 366 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
vimesey writes:
I publish my papers in journals where they understand mathematics. That doesn't include the fossil tea-leaf reading journals and Mad magazine. But if any of your "scientific" journals published a paper explaining the physics and mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski evolutionary experiments, why don't you point us to those links? You won't.
He's been banging the same (very small) drum in informal websites like these for 13 years at least. And in all that time, he's not had the guts to publish his anti-evolutionary theory claims with any degree of honesty in any respected peer reviewed scientific journal. 13 years. The very epitome of a coward.vimesey writes:
I leave the speculation to those who are experts on this, the fish-to-mammals aficionados. And you asked him how old he thought the earth was didn't you ? And he didn't have the guts to reply openly. Coward again. Hey Phat, is the age of the earth question on topic? How about the shape of the earth?
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 366 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Who's denying evolution? Aside from Taq giving us the 3e9 number of replications for a particular mutation to occur, I'm the only one on this forum giving any correct mathematics. Well, maybe AZPaul3 thinks that some number between 1 and indeterminant is his idea of mathematics.
It's odd isn't it?Evolution denying has become a thing like holocaust denial and antivax. That's all mad enough but I really don't get religion denying. That's supposed to be against everything they're supposed to believe. Tangle writes:
I can't justify it to you, you don't have the mathematical and scientific skills to understand the justification. You should take a course in introductory probability theory, you would have a much better understanding of this discussion.
I suppose they find a way to justify it to themselves but only them and their god knows how.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 366 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
From Message 1 So this topic is only about teaching 19th century concepts about evolution?Phat writes: Evidently you claim that it is. I see no major problem with the school system in regards to their teaching of biological,sociological,anthropological and mathematical concepts. The topic was more focused on what brand of sacred studies or religious studies should be added to the curriculum.extent writes:
What's more sacred than the truth? Is it true that fish are our distant relatives? If so, how did this happen?
How can we teach both evolution and religion in school when they seemingly conflict so much with one another?Kleinman writes:
So you think an incorrect explanation of the physics and mathematics of evolution is the correct way to go?
Don't you think that biology students should be taught how bacteria evolve resistance to drugs and why cancer treatments fail? Or do you think that biology students only need to be indoctrinated with the notion that fish are their distant relatives? I think this upsets you because you are one of those mathematically incompetent fish-to-mammals aficionados.Phat writes: You really like to push that point that *we* all are mathematically incompetent, don't you? The facts which I see are that1) Your view is a minority view pushed by extremists. I see that students are taught quite well in our system. And by the way, how did *you* learn your math and how did *you* learn about drug resistance and better cancer treatments? My basic gripe with you is that you are taking this topic in directions it need not go. Kleinman writes:
What they will know is the correct physics and mathematics of evolution. And you think that stamping their feet and saying that the theory of evolution is true is not rehashing their argument? It isn't even an argument, they can't even explain the simplest evolutionary experiments. And sometimes the majority is wrong.
I've talked to many biologists and biology students over the years and not one could explain the physics and mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski evolutionary experiments.Phat writes: OK lets assume that they knew what you know. For the bloody sake of argument. What now will happen in the field of study? To me, all that I see is a bunch of students who think like you do. And i'm not sure that would be any better for the teaching profession than what they currently have. OK. We are done with your rabbit trail. Don't rehash your arguments again. This topic *will* remain on course.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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kleinman writes: Who's denying evolution? That would be you kleinman, you're a young earth creationist.
I can't justify it to you, you don't have the mathematical and scientific skills to understand the justification. I'm not interested in your mathematics, my comment had nothing to do with your mathematics. Sometimes normal people talk of other subjects. I was wondering how you reconcile denying your beliefs whilst being a Christian. It's another version of lying for Jesus.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Kleinman writes:
You seem to think that's what's being taught in schools. If you've been to school, you ought to know. Is it true that fish are our distant relatives? If so, how did this happen?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 366 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
Other than Taq who correctly computed the number of replications required for a beneficial mutation to occur (3e9), I'm the only one on this forum who has given a correct explanation of the mathematics of evolution. And what does the age of the earth have to do with evolution? Other than the association that fish-to-mammals make with their dogma, the age of the earth has nothing to do with the physics and mathematics of evolution (which you have admitted you don't understand). In addition, I have never made a statement about the age of the earth. The reason I haven't is that I don't know.
Who's denying evolution?Tangle writes: That would be you kleinman, you're a young earth creationist.Kleinman writes:
Your mind reading skills are no better than your mathematical skills. You could do something about your incompetence in mathematics.
I can't justify it to you, you don't have the mathematical and scientific skills to understand the justification.Tangle writes: I'm not interested in your mathematics, my comment had nothing to do with your mathematics. Sometimes normal people talk of other subjects. I was wondering how you reconcile denying your beliefs whilst being a Christian. It's another version of lying for Jesus.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 366 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
I've spent plenty of years in school and that's what was taught at that time. With all the social promotions, need for remedial courses in colleges, kids leaving college with huge debts and unable to find jobs, who knows what is being taught now.
Is it true that fish are our distant relatives? If so, how did this happen?ringo writes: You seem to think that's what's being taught in schools. If you've been to school, you ought to know.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
Then you shouldn't need to ask us, "how did this happen?" I've spent plenty of years in school and that's what was taught at that time."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 366 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
Why not? None of the fish-to-mammals aficionados explained it then other than they said it takes a long, long time. And your explanation is no better. They also didn't explain how drug resistance evolves or why cancer treatments fail. They and you actually don't explain anything about evolution. Is that what you think should be taught about evolution is schools?
I've spent plenty of years in school and that's what was taught at that time.ringo writes: Then you shouldn't need to ask us, "how did this happen?"
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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kleinman writes: Your mind reading skills are no better than your mathematical skills. I no longer need to guess, you've already admitted it. Took a while and it slipped out sideways but oh, yes, you're just another warped Christian creationist pretending that you know the mysteries of creation. We get a few types here, the indoctrinated, those that god talks to and your type, the nutter that thinks they know things that the world of science does not know and is usually writing a book or publishing a paper that will change the world; but never do. It's surprising how many of the sciency types are so loathe to expose their beliefs but always do in the end. It's dishonest but that doesn't seem to matter. Of course if I HAVE got it entirely wrong, you can just put us all right.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 627 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
You write
quote:A great deal is known about how drug resistance evolves. For example, here is an article about why drug resistance evolves much more readily than vaccine resistance: quote:
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dad Member (Idle past 1368 days) Posts: 337 Joined: |
Always good talking as if you have won or have something to say after someone gets banned eh?
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