Noah's Flood and the Geologic Layers (was Noah's shallow sea)

The Hydroplates unchallenged young earth explains Tectonics shortcomings! thread and the Fossil sorting for simple thread are both picking up posts at a furious rate, and I'm afraid that this one may begin to do the same. I just posted this over at the other threads, and I post it again here:I'd like to put the onus on the evolutionists to keep the thread from fragmenting into many tiny posts and to keep the discussion focused on the topic of Noah's sea. It is important to first make sure Simple understands the points being made. Only those with the patience to repeatedly explain the same thing many times should participate in discussions with Simple. Participating in a game of "Let's pepper the message board" is strongly discouraged.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

Hi, All!I just posted this same message over at the Fossil sorting for simple thread. I repeat it here.Now that it's morning, I want to reiterate my comments from last night, plus I want to add a little more.To the evolutionists: Moose has mentioned many times the downside of piling on. This thread is a nearly perfect illustration of the problems inherent when that happens. Discussion became fragmented because many people made the same point, but each in their own way, and the original points often became lost as posts became shorter and shorter. I just traced Mark's post back to see what the original point was and had to go back at least six messages before discovering it concerned cladistic correlations. This is no way to conduct a debate.Some of the best points were made early on but were never comprehended, and now they've become lost. I think a return to the early simple points is a good idea. Evolutionists should procede gently but persistently with these points until they are understood.To the Creationists, mostly Simple: I appreciate that you acknowledged and understood my points about the way discussion takes place here at EvC Forum. This thread resides in one of the science forums, and so discussion here should seriously address the topic. It helps a lot if you understand a post before replying to it. Understanding a point is not the same as agreeing with it. In fact, it is essential to understand a point if you're to successfully rebut it. As you read above, I'm encouraging evolutionists to persist with a particular point until you give an indication of understanding it, and only then move on to the next point.It may seem to you that I'm singling you out for special criticism, since I'm criticizing you for not understanding the posts you're replying to while I'm not doing that to the evolutionists, and you may therefore perhaps conclude that I am biased. I *am* an evolutionist, and I *do* believe in God. Please trust that I am simply going by what I see, and that's that the evolutionists are piling on, and that you haven't comprehended most of what you've read, plus you don't have the necessary background in which to assess the information anyway. It's like you need hooks on which to hang all the hats, but since you haven't built the house yet you have no walls to which to nail the hooks, and so you're left with a mass of unorganized hats sitting useless on the ground. It takes time to build the house and hang the hooks and organize the hats. It takes time to learn, and I'm urging you to slow down.Please understand that just because you don't understand the positions of the evolutionists doesn't mean that they are right and you are wrong. It just means that the replies you're currently offering don't offer too many signs of you having understood what you're replying to, and so most of the discussion to this point has been of you and the evolutionists talking past each other. It's this situation that I'd like to bring to an end.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

Hi, all!I think the original topic of shallow seas has generalized to how the geologic layers were produced, so I'm going to change the thread's title to Noah's Flood and the Geologic Layers (was Noah's shallow sea).

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

Being curt and heavy handed with those unfamiliar with science is unlikely to be productive. I think these are the necessary qualitifications:

• Willing to repeat the same information as many times as necessary for the point to be understood.
• Responds to misconceptions gently.
• Understands that misinterpretations will sometimes appear willful, and even if they are takes it in stride.
• Ignores jabs and taunts and being treated disrespectfully.

Remember, you're discussing with people who do not share your science backgrounds, and in fact probably have had little exposure to science. Abusing them will not make them learn any faster - I'm sure most of us spent many years learning what we know, and we can't expect others to learn any faster than we did. Just because other people have spent their time and energy learning things other than science is not a license to treat them roughly.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

Hi, Simple!Please restrict your participation in the future to the Free For All forum and other non-Main Topic Forums (see List of Forums - you're no longer permitted in the forums listed under "Main Topic Forums").

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

This is Simple's thread - if no one objects, I'll move it to Free For All later today.PS - Really cool avatar!

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

That's fine. Since you opened the thread and do not want it moved, I will not move it.But if you post to the Main Topic Forums again I will suspend you.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

Agreed.Simple, you may continue participating in this thread, but all other participation must be outside the Main Topic Forums.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

EvC Forum strives for productive discussion. Suspensions generally last for as long as I'm persuaded they're helpful to that goal.I've been assuming you've been following the other thread where your suspension has been discussed, but if not, let me repeat here that in my view you're very weak in the areas of scientific background and analytical thinking. This is illustrated most often by your inability to distinguish between or draw any correspondences between hypothesis and evidence. During the time I engaged you I sensed no improvement and no willingness to improve, nor even any awareness of any deficiency. You have a quick mind and may be brilliant in your specialty, but even a Nobel prize winning physicist would find himself looking very foolish if he visited a needlepoint discussion board and pretended to know what he was talking about. That you don't know that you don't know, even when informed repeatedly and provided evidence, is itself a problem.If you should find your posting privileges have been suspended, they may be restored by sending email to Admin.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

Hi, Simple!Like your new avatar!Please try to stay on topic. If you'd like to discuss chromosomes you could open a new thread over at Free For All.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

I know it must seem like Hovind's been shown a nitwit about a million times, but perhaps every Creationist is entitled to have Hovind's ideas gently rebutted the first time.Another thing to consider. One reason Simple has been restricted to non-Main Topic Forums (except for this thread) is because this is a science site, and he isn't really accessible to scientific argument, so you might want to think about whether you really want to spend the time.Chromosomes are off-topic for this thread, I've requested another thread be opened.[This message has been edited by Percy, 02-14-2004]

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

Hi, simple,I know you'd prefer that this thread remain in the [forum=-7] forum, but this style of debate really doesn't belong in the main topic forums. I'm moving this thread to Free For All. Please remember you're no longer permitted to participate in the main topic forums.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Administrator

Thread moved here from the Geology and the Great Flood forum.