Free will vs Omniscience

IF Hell exists, would you ever want to go there? If the answer is "no" what makes you think that GOD is somehow going to allow you to be tricked and even end up there to begin with?The only reservations made are the ones we make. IF you dont plan on making reservations, why even worry about ultimate foreknowledge?

Your arrogance is showing. Sproul likely knows the bible far better than you do. You have fallen for the whole idea that logic and rationality trump faith when it comes to understanding. As a result, you are unwittingly leading many people down a path that leaves them with more questions and less answers than they had before. This is fine IF GOD simply expects people to learn about the universe rather than about Him. Sadly, I believe that you are mistaken. But of course I too could be wrong.

As if there is a huge number of hucksters and that the true truth seekers learn more from studying "Kim" than by meditating on Jesus Christ! I am thankful that we all do have Free Will because some day there will be no excuse that GOD foreordained us to a certain fate. We will have chosen it every step of the way.

What business is it of ours to know what GOD knows?Of course, Open Theism would assert that its no business of GOD what we choose.Does Open Theism make much sense to you?

Attempting to steer this ship back on topic..... To a degree I agree with this statement. Because i believe that GOD is alive through Jesus Christ,(His human conduit) I will tend to accept certain dreams as personal evidence. Granted i will admit that anything I label as "evidence" is subjective in relation to my personal beliefs. Like I said...my evidence is subjective. I cannot as of yet produce any objective evidence for Gods foreknowledge or whether or not I actually have free will. Others have thoughts on these issues:

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...free will does not mean one will, but many wills conflicting in one man. Freedom cannot be conceived simply. ― Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood

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If there was no free will in men, then there is no sins. When sins happened, it was 'free will' that made them doable. This is true, unless God has predestined human to do and to have sins. ― Toba Beta

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I once heard it said that there are two religions in the world: 1) human attainment and 2) Divine accomplishment.

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So I type "What Is The Gospel into the google search engine. 30+ sights all say that the Gospel is about Divine Accomplishment.Only jar from Texas says its about doing your best.But you probably never cared much for popularity contests anyway.

For those following this topic, jar and I have had similar discussions many years ago. Here is one from 2007 in the topic, Evangelical Support groupWhats also interesting is that GDR was offended by jar back then also...and tried to defend me.I will continue this discussion at the Evangelical Support Group topic.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

I've had it happen to me---I remember to this day! I also have witnessed it happening to others. They literally change instantly.Maintaining the salvation is not our job. I believe, however, that it is our job to be mindful of our attitudes and behaviors.I agree with jar that we should try and do our best every day,confessing when we are wrong and allowing Gods Spirit to strengthen and perfect us. Perhaps some people fear that it is a form of self hypnosis or something and never allow themselves to trust anything they don't understand. What other explanation is there?

Questioning and even doubting ones faith is a normal human reaction. I tend to believe that of one actually lost their faith they never had it to begin with. It takes works to maintain faith, but the Holy Spirit will support your efforts.

Look at it this way, Omni. Say I had never met my Grandfather.. I had heard stories and known everything to know about him that I could know...except his very character and presence. It would be easy to say that I never really knew him.Contrast this scenario with one where I actually had an occasion and opportunity to meet him. We spent time together and I soaked in his character.Given that the second scenario occurred, could I ever then say that I never really knew him?Get the analogy? Christians who have actually had a time when they felt that they met Jesus would never really walk away from the faith no matter how difficult the times must be. Many examples can be given.It has been my observation that--at least around here--people allow logic and evidence to trump their emotional and soulful encounters with the risen Christ. or perhaps they never had a soulful encounter.jar would ask how i knew I had met Jesus. All I can say is that the word "knew" in this context is the same Biblical definition for an intimate encounter. True. If I had met a Grandfather who abused me, it would be easier to deny he ever existed.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Oh? Explain to me the time you once had faith---and what it was that you had it in?

Which means--to me at least--that if you never had faith in anything or anyone other than an idea which you claim is and was made up by others..(nevermind) OK...got it. The idea that there is nothing to be lost is your opinion and belief. Evidence is not simply external and easily replicable. In some cases evidence is internal.For some of us, there is a person in whom we believe and in whom we claim to know.It is to us more than simply an idea---nor a made up one.

Disciple of Sam Harris, are you? The Time Magazine article *is* interesting, however. I'll give you that. To wit: I still say its too early to draw any conclusions regarding what is and is not absolute truth....but I'll take into consideration this new knowledge that we humans on our dust speck are amassing---regarding what we know versus what we make up.I maintain that "growing up" does not eliminate the need for spirituality--nor does it imply that belief in Jesus Christ--alive eternally and in communion eternally with humanity---is a bad and destructive mindset.In Line with this topic, you may urge readers to utilize free will and gain knowledge while discarding superstition. In your mind, all religious beliefs are superstitious.As far as Omniscience goes, you may argue that there is nothing nor anyone to whom we could attribute such a trait.I, on the other hand, would embrace waking up each day and surrendering my problems to something and someone in whom I believe. This does not stop me from using critical thinking, discrimination of ideas, or free will regarding less important matters such as which pair of socks to wear.Lets say I read either my Bible or a similar themed text every day. Today, as an example, I pick up a devotional called The Word For You Today and read the following entry:

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Always Keep a Good Attitude
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"Meditate on these things...and the God of peace will be with you." Philippians 4:8-9 NKJV

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When you're going through bad times, your goal should be to keep a good attitude. And with God's help you can. Dr. Viktor Frankl, a Nazi Holocaust camp survivor, said, "If a prisoner felt that he could no longer endure the realities of camp life, he found a way out in his mental life-an invaluable opportunity to dwell in the spiritual domain, the one that the [SS] was unable to destroy. Spiritual life strengthened the prisoner, helped him to adapt, and thereby improved his chances of survival." Here is some practical advice on keeping a good attitude in bad times: (1) Always believe the best about others, but don't get bent out of shape when they disappoint you. Nobody is perfect, including you. Just be grateful for the people that bring joy, and endeavour to be counted among them. (2) When you are tempted to retaliate, judge, or become impatient, say to yourself, "This is an opportunity for me to model a great attitude for the glory of God." You say, "But this person is driving me crazy." Then refuse to be a "passenger" and go along with them. Take back the wheel, get into the driver's seat of your life, and determine which direction you'll go and what attitude you'll have. The Bible says "Whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy-meditate on these things...and the God of peace will be with you."

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Gen 17-19, John 12:37-50, Ps 118:19-29, Prov 31:14-17

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Would you argue that this start of my day is turning my worldview to mush?

Well who gets to define them then? I always liked the quote from Louis Carroll...

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'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.'

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I suppose science will scan my brain and find it empty..

I base the definition on personal experience. "Seeing Is Believing" is to me, evidence. And for the record---NO---I do not need evidence.