Group of atheists has filed a lawsuit

Those aren't things that this object provided. Those are things that people attributed to this object because of their religious beliefs in the letter T.A roof provides shade and shelter from the rain. It doesn't matter if you believe in the letter T or if you believe in the letter P and therefore fear the letter T people will murder you. A roof is a roof is a roof. It provides the same thing for all people.Your argument appears to be that this letter T is magical somehow because it used it's magic T powers to provide spiritual comfort for people whom the letter T people are under instructions to murder on sight.That's ridiculous.This is just an example of "T first!" religious nutjobs trying to rub their religion in everyone's face. AGain. So, you've added the additional "museum quality" importance of "a meeting place".An object that "provided a morale boost"??!?! Are you fucking kidding me?Why not spray paint a swastika on the side of a synagogue? That could serve as a meeting place and it would raise morale of some people. Should that be put in a museum as a great moment in Jewish heritage?Fuck no.Does this museum include the coffee shop from across the street? That served as a meeting place AND it raised morale for people of ALL RELIGIONS.This piece of shit is a direct insult to anyone who isn't part of your "T" versus the other letters war. Uh huh. Suuuuuuure that's why.This is why we get so frustrate with you fucking Christians. You can't stop the bullshit long enough to own up to what you are actually saying and doing.You are SERIOUSLY?!?!? here trying to argue that a FUCKING CROSS is NOT a Christian symbol?Give me a fucking break. Even for a Christian that's particularly low. There's nothing to rebut. You've provided NO ARGUMENT.Your _CLAIM_ made with a wink and a hand down some child's pants, is that the letter T is sacred to all religions and is the best possible meeting place.It's pathetic.

You say they had no such thoughts, but the only way you can make this argument is if they had NO THOUGHTS at all.The problem is that Christians like to make claims but as a group consistently fail to think through the implications of their claims. This could be chalked up to a general lack of education amongst their numbers, but more likely it's a result of them wearing their religion like a badge and not actually bothering to understand their own claims of belief.They are claiming that this is some sort of holy artifact. That the presence of this T shaped piece of metal (of which there were literally hundreds of thousands in each tower), is some sort of miracle or sign from Jesus. Otherwise, what comfort are they getting from it? Why is it more valuable than any other piece of metal from the site?The only basis for their argument that this piece of metal is more important than others is because it's shaped like the letter T and they believe that that means that Jesus put it there.Otherwise, they would worship the T at "Stop and Shop" or the T as "Starbucks". No, THIS T is significant while other Ts are not.So, what are the implications of this T being significant?They can't believe it's significant because it's a random occurrence? Otherwise, any T shaped object anywhere would be magic too. Trees that look like the letter T, sticks that fall to the ground in a letter T, etc etc etc.No, this T is magic because they believe that this T is _not_ a random occurrence, but rather an object put there specifically to give them moral support.So, this T was put there by Jesus on purpose for them. That's their claim. That's why this object has value.If Jesus put this T there on purpose, there's only two possible ways that that could happen.
1) He put it there during construction with foreknowledge that the attack was going to happen.
2) He shaped it during the destruction using magic Jesus powers.No one is claiming this this appeared out of nowhere overnight. That's NOT a part of the miracle.If Jesus put it there BEFORE the attacks, then he did so with foreknowledge OF the attacks and therefore wanted the attacks to occur, or at the very least was not interested in any way in stopping the attacks from occurring.If Jesus put it there DURING the attacks, then he demonstrates that ability to shape the materials, in which case he could have used those magic powers to stave off the attack or, at the very least, save a few people. He didn't.So, EITHER WAY, Jesus allowing people to die in order to make his T more important to people.That's the implication of their claim. Just because they haven't bothered to think it through, doesn't mean it's not there.If I said "Obama shouldn't be president because he's black", the implication, whether or not I say it, is that "blacks aren't capable of being president". I don't get to make the first claim without owning up to the second claim which it implies.That's what the Christians are trying to do. They want statement #1 but they don't want statement #2.Another example of them doing exactly this with events surrounding 9/11:
The Church near ground zero received less damage than some of the other buildings around it. In reality, this has more to do with aerodynamics and methodology of construction than anything else, but Christians were claiming this was a miracle.Their argument: The Church didn't receive as much damage because God/Jesus sheltered it.The implication which they haven't bothered to think about: God/Jesus has the ability to protect buildings from damage and PICKED THIS BUILDING which didn't really contain any people to protect, while allowing 3,000 people in other buildings which they DIDN'T protect, to die.Same deal. You don't get to claim #1 as a miracle unless you are willing to admit #2 as well.Lastly, it's worth mentioning that this was a religious attack. People can claim global economics or America's imperialism, etc. But in reality, it was Muslims that attacked for Muslim motives. One of the BIGGEST Muslim motives is that we, a "Christian Nation" are supporting Israel, a "Jewish Nation".The problem is that Muslims, Jews and Christians are ALL worshiping the SAME GOD.So, for a Buddhist, Atheist, Hindu, etc relatives of those who died on 9/11, the cross is as much a symbol of the terrorists as anything else. It's a reminder that their loved ones were victims of a holy war between three sects of the SAME RELIGION.Claiming that the God of the Christians was being supportive after the SAME GOD helped the Muslims kill all these people because they don't like the Jews who worship the SAME GOD, is frankly retarded.This symbol is a slap in the face to the victims who were not a part of this religious war.

If it is an actual photo of the display, we've got bigger problems than religious iconography.We've got computer animate figures walking around the museum! It's an "Escape from Tron" situation!

If you wouldn't mind, it's extremely annoying to have people arguing about whether or not they asked or answered a question in a previous message.It's even MORE annoying to have people arguing about whether or not they asked or answered the question that was being questioned in the previous message about what was being said in previous messages.Is the rest of this thread going to be an infinite number of posts of:"Did not!"
"Did so!"
"Did not not"
"Did so so"
"Did not not not"
"Did so so so"If you believe you answered a question but someone believes you didn't, then you didn't do a good enough job answering it.If you believe you did do a good enough job, then repost your answer in a snarky way that makes it clear you think the person is a moron for not being about to understand it.Linking back to old messages and the old messages that refute them and the old messages that refute the refutations and the old messages that question the logic in the replies to refuted refutations requires so many pop up windows and additional tabs that just following the denials risks crashing most browsers.The facts remain the same, as they have for PAGES now.There is NO other purpose or importance to this letter T than the fact that it looks like a Christian symbol. It's not the only one. It's presence is not even improbably. I suspect these can be found in virtually every demolished building which had iron crossbeams.This object is no more relevant to the history of 9/11 than the photo of "satan" in the smoke from the towers.It's something that looks like something that _some_ religious people think is important.Meanwhile, other religious people see it as a symbol of a religious blood feud which was responsible for the death and destruction that day.Until a Christians can provide the following -
1) Evidence that this object has ANY significance beyond looking like a letter T
2) An explanation why they would WANT to imply that their deity had anything to do with 9/11
- there's not much left to discuss.You guys have been utterly stomped on this thread. It's time to put up or shut up.

The Koran had a LARGER role as a religious symbol and _motivation_ for the attack. Are they including a Koran in the museum?Nope. Why not?Because some people would say it's in bad taste to glorify a religious symbol with such negative associations with the attack.Well, guess what? The cross also has majorly negative associations, as a cause of the attack and as a symbol that the God of the terrorists couldn't give a crap about saving lives. Good luck proving that there were no other objects on the site than any one of any religion found significant.Again, just because Christians find something important doesn't mean that all other religious groups vanish.

Oh, so now it has to be "big" too. And if there was a big Koran, it would have to be made of metal to count? And if it was made of metal, it would have to be T shaped. Untrue.Look, this cross is going to be mounted in a way that makes Christians feel good about it being in the museum. Which means it's going to be mounted in a way that makes other people feel bad about it being mounted in the museum.If the museum put up a shrine to the photos of the hijackers, meaning some nice candles and "you will be missed" on the wall, people would have an absolute SHIT FIT.That's because people would find it offensive.Well, people find this offensive.Just because the people who think it's important are smart enough of intellectually honest enough to acknowledge that it's presence at the site does not have the meaning they claim it has, doesn't mean that non- Christians should be forced to accept their ignorance.There are literally BILLIONS of artifacts from the site which have historical significance. Only the tiniest sliver of them is going to be present in the museum.Why include this one that's offensive? Making a broad statement based on facts not in evidence? Is that the best intellectual argument you can make?You've already set down the impossible guidelines for what is "acceptable". It must be big and metal and shaped like a cross.No, there are no non-Christian artifacts which are big and metal and shaped like a cross. You've got me there. But the ONLY role this artifact has is that some Christians feel it's significant. It's not OBJECTIVELY significant.A piece of the plane is objectively significant. A failed mounting bracket is objectively significant. A burned crushed NYFD helmet is objectively significant.This is not objectively significant. You know how I know? There's a group of us telling you so.

Yes, the display includes a bible, a cross, a star of david cut from crossbeam metal, a Jewish prayer shawl.No Koran. No statues of Vishnu. No Buddhas.So, the message is clear: This attack is about a war between the Jews/Christians and the Muslims.The rest of you can go fuck yourselves. Too bad you died for our war. This is our country not yours. blah blah blah The purpose of the museum is to slant it to make it more palatable for Christians and Jews.They literally CUT a star of david out of metal. That's not a found object.That's a specific message: "Yes, this attack happened because the Muslims are mad that the Americans support Israel, and we aren't going to back down on that support"Expressed another way: One group of childish fairy tale believers is made at another group that also believes in the same fairy tales for supporting a third group that also believes in the same fairy tales, so the first group killed a lot of people who either don't believe in fairy tales at all, or believe in a completely different set of fairy tales. No, but I don't lionize it.The stuff in the holocaust museum is historic and offensive, but it's not presented in a "Wee! Holocaust!" way. It's not presented as "Thank God for the Holocaust". It's presented as EVIL.This is an object of evil and it's being presented as though it were a holy relic. Yes. You are allowed to do that.Doesn't make you any less wrong.If there were NO Christians at the site whatsoever, this object wouldn't have any significance.If there were NO Christians, a firemans hat would still have the EXACT same amount o significance.
If there were NO Christians, a failed brachet would have the exact same amount of significance.
Ditto a piece of plane, or a pic of Guilianni, or of someone covered in ash, etc etc etc.This object is only significant because Christians are pretending that it is.That makes it entirely subjective.