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Author | Topic: New York Gay Marriage | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Trae Member (Idle past 4336 days) Posts: 442 From: Fremont, CA, USA Joined: |
Come on. Let's assume for a second that you have a 12 year old son.
Given we know that these groups raise money from religious donors and given we know that churches themselves often help fund these organizations what is so unreasonable. When is the last time you heard a mega church raise millions of dollars to combat drug addiction?
You discover that there is a minister in your neighborhood who runs a special class for young boys focusing on indepth discussion about their gay desires. Your conclusion is: "Wow, that guy must be making tons of money"? They are covered by "gay rights" legislation. That makes them gay.
I’m covered by medical marijuana legislation. Does that make me a pot smoker? I’m covered by immigration laws, does that make me an immigrant? More on point, there are straight people who are covered by ‘gay rights’ legislation. How does that make them gay?
Saying that they aren't "gay" because sometimes they want to be "gay" and sometimes they don't is just silly.
As gay is a preference and not simply an act, how can you not prefer men over woman and still be gay?
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Yes. Thanks.
Can you understand that discounting a persons opinion because they haven't had enough same sex sex is just as much condescension, needling, goading and monkey poking as anything I'm doing? I would agree that it is bad form, but you understand that is not something I am guilty of, right? That if anyone is guilty of doing what you describe it is Jaderis and that an apology for so doing has been issued? That I shouldn't be subjected to 'tit for tat' retaliation goading etc for something I didn't actually do?
Can you understand that being nitpicky about terminology derails the entire movement? I don't think being nitpicky is threatening to derail the entire movement, no. I do understand than combating negative stereotypes - even (and perhaps especially) those done casually - is actually part of the movement. Do you?
Why on Earth would anyone want to help you if the first thing you do is beat them up for not using your particular term when you yourself switch off terms whenever you feel it applies? I should point out that I don't 'switch off terms'. A person is gay, bi or hetero. If they are monogamous, they may be in a gay, or hetero relationship. There is a difference, as bluegenes expressed so well, between sexual orientation and sexual history. And really, thanks for the civil response.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2523 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
It's same sex marriage. This isn't a thread about same sex marriage. It's a thread about gay marriage. You can tell by looking at the top of the page where it says "New York Gay Marriage". You keep trying to relabel it, while jumping on a bandwagon full of people who are bitching and moaning about people relabeling stuff in ways they don't approve.
I think that if you want to discuss subjects like this, your English needs to be good enough to distinguish between phrases like "sexual orientation" and "sexual history". Well forgive me for missing one word in your post while trying to police for words you are changing in mine. Fine, I'll edit my response. You can sort everyone into two groups: Those who WANT to have sex with people with matching parts and those who don't. Happy?
No-one has to be gay in order to have a same sex marriage. I think you'll be surprised by how it plays out in practice. There are all sorts of normal marriages who are regularly questioned by the INS about their feelings and or sexual practices. I agree it shouldn't be that way, but it is what it is.
People are under no obligation to call their same sex marriages "gay marriages" because you want them to It's not about what I want. You make it sound like I'm the _only_ person in the entire world to use terms like "gay marriage" or "gay rights". I know you know that that isn't the case. Do I need to remind you of rule 8?
You seem to want to back up your desire to call bisexuals "gay" by deciding that all same sex marriages (the correct legal term) have to be called "gay marriages". Again. You seem to think that I somehow invented the term gay and that no bisexual anywhere at anytime used the word "gay" in an inclusive fashion. Could you please provide documentation that no bisexual anywhere at anytime ever used "gay" inclusively? Footnotes please.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2523 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Those, 'one time at camp' stories seem to be similar or perhaps the emo boy fetish for kissing? Maybe, but I haven't heard any "one time at camp" stories about straight guys experimenting. I've heard plenty about girls.I've heard plenty about gay guys having their first experience. Just never hear about two straight guys who say "Boy, I'm super curious about being gay". Just never seems to happen.
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
You can sort everyone into two groups: Those who WANT to have sex with people with matching parts and those who don't. What about people who enjoy both?"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
Maybe, but I haven't heard any "one time at camp" stories about straight guys experimenting. Of course not, because for girls it's sexy. For guys.....it's demasculating. If a guy talks about how, over the summer, he experimented with another guy, he gets mocked and ridiculed. A girl does the same and it's seen as sexy by guys and "meh" by her female friends. It comes as no surprise that there are FAR fewer "this one time, at band camp" stories told by dudes. {abe} And YOU are proof positive as to why. A guy comes out and says it, you jump and label him gay. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given."Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2523 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
I would agree that it is bad form, but you understand that is not something I am guilty of, right? Frankly, you are all starting to sound alike. I'm responding to a good 20+ messages in a row all either nitpicking vocab, accusing me of X-pobia, complaining that I don't have enough gay sex, or that I am secretly having a lot of gay sex but ashamed of it. That's not including the constant posts asking me to repeat myself. If you guys would pick one spokesman and not jump on each others bandwagons, I'd be able to keep you straight. But, as it stands, I'm responding to too many people about what other people said in response to things yet other people said about message I posted to other people. If you guys hadn't jumped on the "get the straight boy" bandwagon, none of this would have happened at all. Like I said before, I left the thread. I got brought back in by (what we now know was a drunk) and you guys jumped in when I dared to defend myself against him.
I do understand than combating negative stereotypes - even (and perhaps especially) those done casually - is actually part of the movement. Do you? You understand why the republicans kick the crap out of the democrat 99 times out of 100, right? It's because the democrats crawl up each others' asses every single time anyone says anything while the Republicans set an agenda and stick to it. It's been this way for decades. The political correctness of the 90s is a terrific example of a way to ruin any support you might have. "I support women's rights!""How dare you use the offensive womEn spelling. If you _really_ supported us, you would say womyn's rights!" You know what the next line of that conversation is?"Go F yourself bitch". You know why? Because when you are attacked by someone while trying to be supportive of them, you lose all respect for that group. If you guys would just worry about the big picture one time, you'd get something done. Instead, it's endless infighting over meaningless crap. No one on the other side of the debate cares if you are bi or gay or trans or whatever. For them it's all "Jesus hates fags!". And when you stop fighting the "Jesus hates fags!" people to take a swing at someone for not being sensitive enough about "bi-erasure", you just end up making an enemy of an ally. So what do we end up with? 10 pages of people complaining to an advocate of gay marriage that he's not enough of an advocate. Meanwhile the anti-gay people remain unopposed.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2523 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
What about people who enjoy both? And the loop continues. Sigh. If the world is split into two groups:1) People who eat cheese 2) People who don't eat cheese And you ask, "what about people who sometimes eat cheese?" which group would they fit in? No where does it say that group 1 eats cheese exclusively. Nor does it say that group 1 doesn't have arms or legs, that they don't sleep, etc etc etc. The defining characteristic of group 1 is "eats cheese". If you eat cheese. AT ALL. You are in group one.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2523 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
And YOU are proof positive as to why. A guy comes out and says it, you jump and label him gay. If he's having gay sex. He's gay. Whether or not I exist doesn't change that fact. If you have a problem, it should be with the fact that you seem to think there's something wrong with being gay or being labelled gay. I never said that.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2523 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
When is the last time you heard a mega church raise millions of dollars to combat drug addiction? A mega church is a building/organization. Not a guy. If a guy makes it his life's work to spend a bunch of time with gay teens and talk extensively about their sexual desires, you have to admit that that smacks of motivations other than money.
I’m covered by medical marijuana legislation. Does that make me a pot smoker? If you smoke pot. Yes. I'm covered by gay rights legislation too, technically. But it doesn't really mean anything. I'm also covered by the 2nd amendment, but I don't have a gun. The point is that bisexuals are seeking protection under these laws. They aren't demanding a separate set of laws that specifically address them as being something other than "gay".
As gay is a preference and not simply an act, how can you not prefer men over woman and still be gay? You've lost me in your complex multiple negative. I'll state it again, though I suspect you've seen it before: If you want to have sex with people the same parts, you're gay. You can be other things too, doesn't make you not gay.
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined:
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And that is NOT AT ALL how human sexuality works. However, if you would like to wallow in ignorance, that's fine. Just stop being a fag about it when people correct you.
for the record: this whole "woe is me. get the straight boy" shit is retarded. ONE person has identified as being BI. I am straight as they cum, you sexy beast. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given."Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined:
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If you have a problem, it should be with the fact that you seem to think there's something wrong with being gay or being labelled gay. Me, personally? Nope. I DO, however, have a problem with non-gay people being labeled as gay. Which you seem to enjoy doing..."Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2523 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
And that is NOT AT ALL how human sexuality works. But it is how binary categorization works.
for the record: this whole "woe is me. get the straight boy" shit is retarded. Bring it up with the gay guy who told me I couldn't have an opinion unless I had more gay sex.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2523 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined:
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Me, personally? Nope. I DO, however, have a problem with non-gay people being labeled as gay. Which you seem to enjoy doing... Hardly. In fact, I only have two categories one ONE of them is for non-gay people. That's a pretty big portion of my two groups. Almost 50%
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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If you guys hadn't jumped on the "get the straight boy" bandwagon, none of this would have happened at all. If it helps, I reacted the same way when a gay person did it in Message 3 of You're either straight, gay, or lying?. Your sexuality is irrelevant. But I'll accept your implicit apology that you got confused over who was saying what to you.
You understand why the republicans kick the crap out of the democrat 99 times out of 100, right? It's because the democrats crawl up each others' asses every single time anyone says anything while the Republicans set an agenda and stick to it. I understand how bickering can paralyse politics. But I'm not bickering over political policy here. I'm objecting to the characterisation of bisexual people as being full of themselves, self involved and attention starved as you have painted them. If objecting to these stereotypes isn't part of the gay rights movement, I've been sorely misled.
And when you stop fighting the "Jesus hates fags!" people to take a swing at someone for not being sensitive enough about "bi-erasure", you just end up making an enemy of an ally. I can fight both. The bonus is that you are more likely to change your mind than the "Jesus hates fags!" people.
So what do we end up with? 10 pages of people complaining to an advocate of gay marriage that he's not enough of an advocate. No, we were objecting to your stereotyping a certain sexuality. Or as you prefer it 'a subset of a sexuailty'. We weren't complaining that your advocacy for gay marriage was insufficient for 10 pages.
Meanwhile the anti-gay people remain unopposed. Which is not true. They remain opposed. I didn't avoid tackling anti-gay people just to write twenty posts explaining why I find your stereotyping to be problematic. No gay advocates had to spend any valuable time in here. I think you might be guilty of hyperbole here, right? Furthermore, some people had their consciousness raised regarding the stigmas, stereotypes and the like that bisexual have to deal with. If bisexuals are gay, then that sounds like a successful advocacy of gay rights awareness to me. What else can a thread on EvC hope to achieve?
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