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Author Topic:   Creationism in science classrooms (an argument for)
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 20 of 609 (481714)
09-12-2008 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by johnfolton
09-12-2008 6:49 AM


Re: On teaching creationism in science class
Creation sciences should be taught that include, biology, genetics, natural selection, mutations, natural sciences, geology, soil science, math, computers, mechanical engineering but just omit any reference to an old earth stuff because saying its an old earth without refuting Gentry is proof that evolution is not grounded in science but grounded in myth! Myths might well make you feel good but thats not science either refute Gentry or take all references of an old earth out of the sciences, science is not a feel good game but about teaching our children the truth!!!!!!!
There is no such thing as creation sciences. Where is the evidence for such. Where is the experimentation. Creation science is not science, it cannot be falsified, it is based on belief(faith) not on evidence.
if they can not publicly refute Gentry's Primordial polonium halos.
try the following url
"Polonium Haloes" Refuted
Edited by bluescat48, : spelling & syntax

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by johnfolton, posted 09-12-2008 6:49 AM johnfolton has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by AdminNosy, posted 09-12-2008 9:56 AM bluescat48 has not replied
 Message 37 by ICANT, posted 09-13-2008 12:42 PM bluescat48 has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 21 of 609 (481722)
09-12-2008 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by XX
09-12-2008 1:39 AM


Re: On teaching creationism in science class
According to the ideas of the Enlightenment..that Men will choose Truth for themselves..will seek it out and embrace truth on their own without any interference from anyone..especially the State..Darwinism and Evolution seem to have some credibility problems that browbeating and belittling school children are not going to solve.
When people are alowed to make their own decisions based on evidence then enlightenment occurs. It can be stifled by indoctrination at a level of learning when it it is easy to control what the learner is learning. Most of the religious have been indoctrinated from early childhood long before they will learn about evolution.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by XX, posted 09-12-2008 1:39 AM XX has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 28 of 609 (481839)
09-12-2008 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Modulous
09-12-2008 12:21 PM


Philosophy should be taught in science, because science is a methodology on the back of 'philosophy of science'. I am only proposing, however, a brief history of ideas on the subject at hand.
People used to believe x because of a.
Then they changed that to y because of b.
Science has shown that x and y are problematic and that z is a better explanation because of c, d, e and f (whilst also consistent with a and b)
Fine. So which of the thousand or so creation myths becomes X.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Modulous, posted 09-12-2008 12:21 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Modulous, posted 09-13-2008 11:43 AM bluescat48 has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 73 of 609 (482137)
09-15-2008 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by johnfolton
09-14-2008 10:07 PM


Re: Attitude !!!!!!!
Creation / evolution is at times like modern medicine / alternative medicine. When I asked a heart surgeon if he ever preforms chelation therapy instead of heart surgery to see his reaction.
I found he was unable to discuss in good faith an alternative idea because of how much he studied to become a heart specialists. I told him he was wrong and should consider it and his response was who in the heck are you to tell me about chelation therapy. He might be a good heart surgeon but the medicine of the 21 century might well include alternative medicine like chelation therapy. What an attitude of superiority!!!!!!!
I don't have any idea what chelation therapy is, but evidently it isn't recognized by any Medical association or your your heart surgeon would not have given you that answer. Unproven alternatives don't make in in organized medicine. Sounds more to me like you have the attitude of superiority.
Edited by bluescat48, : missing sentence

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by johnfolton, posted 09-14-2008 10:07 PM johnfolton has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 78 of 609 (482218)
09-15-2008 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by johnfolton
09-15-2008 10:14 AM


Re: Creation Science
Why lie to our kids tell them the truth that the evolutionists stole their theory from the bible but then switched young to old and refused to honor the bible as the source of their micro-evolution principles.
O Really. Please give me the chapter and verse. I must have missed that one.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by johnfolton, posted 09-15-2008 10:14 AM johnfolton has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 93 of 609 (482689)
09-17-2008 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Syamsu
09-17-2008 11:03 AM


You all seem to be divorced from any social context by the scientific method. You seem to have no idea about how your ideas will play out in a classroom, or society at large, because that doesn't figure in the scientific method. You all seem to have no consideration for the decision of the invidual, or parents, or society about what to teach.
So you would go along with the fact that if parents wanted the schools to teach that Hitler was benevelant, or that Stalin was godly, or that the earth was made of chocolate you would agree because the parents want that? (Sounds utterly stupid doesn't it?) The point is that parents or the individual doesn't necessarily know what is right or correct. Science is only science do to the scientific method otherwise it is nothing but blind faith.
Edited by bluescat48, : typos (my tping s#%ks

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Syamsu, posted 09-17-2008 11:03 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Syamsu, posted 09-17-2008 4:02 PM bluescat48 has replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 95 of 609 (482760)
09-17-2008 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Syamsu
09-17-2008 4:02 PM


Sure I would support the right of parentmembers of the blonde hair blue eyes appreciation society to teach their children as they see fit. Also to do this with shared money of society at large, on the basis of equal money per child. Since the rights too choose are guaranteed it would not promote nazism. Anything is better then being forced.
So then it matters not whether what is taught is true or not as long as the parents can get their children indoctrinated in what ever matter they choose.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Syamsu, posted 09-17-2008 4:02 PM Syamsu has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 119 of 609 (524328)
09-15-2009 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by greyseal
08-13-2009 10:56 AM


Re: Teacher on the Frontline
Unfortunately, the fundies are powerful enough that if you belong to the church, you *have* to take RE.
I'd leave the church.
Edited by bluescat48, : goofup

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by greyseal, posted 08-13-2009 10:56 AM greyseal has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 170 of 609 (606156)
02-24-2011 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by shadow71
02-23-2011 8:04 PM


In the class room evolution and creation can be discussed by intelligent instructors.
Yes, but not in the same type of classes. In no way can any form of creationism be taught in a science class, for it is not science, any more that evolution must not be taught in a course on religion(s).
Edited by bluescat48, : sp & clarity

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by shadow71, posted 02-23-2011 8:04 PM shadow71 has seen this message but not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 217 of 609 (606609)
02-27-2011 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by shadow71
02-26-2011 7:09 PM


we happen to mention that perhaps science does not have all the answers.
Whoever said that science claimed to have all the answers. If it did then it wouldn't be science, it would be religious dogma.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by shadow71, posted 02-26-2011 7:09 PM shadow71 has seen this message but not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 236 of 609 (606814)
02-28-2011 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Robert Byers
02-28-2011 5:27 AM


Creationism is only indirectly dealing with religion. in fact it deals with ideas about origins.
Except that there is no evidence of this creation, which is why it can't be taught in a science class.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Robert Byers, posted 02-28-2011 5:27 AM Robert Byers has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 336 of 609 (609079)
03-16-2011 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by Robert Byers
03-16-2011 2:22 AM


There is nothing that bans religion being taught, when it is taught in the right place ie: Ancient history. There Genesis is taught the same way as other creation myths from the Sumerians, Akkadians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Chaldeans, Assyrians, Persians, Greeks & Romans and the Judah/Israel myths also.
The ban on Creationism in science is lawful since creationism isn't science for the same reason that Astrology, Alchemy and Magic are not taught in science classes.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Robert Byers, posted 03-16-2011 2:22 AM Robert Byers has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 414 of 609 (610464)
03-30-2011 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 410 by Robert Byers
03-29-2011 10:48 PM


I predict my reasoning will become the idea that overthrows the present censorship.
The point is there is no censorship. Creation is not science and therefore does not belong in science classes, whether that creation is Judeo-Christian, Mayan, Greek, Roman, Chines, Hindu or any other creation myth,. Creation can be taught where in belongs, in a course of comparative religions.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by Robert Byers, posted 03-29-2011 10:48 PM Robert Byers has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 432 of 609 (611069)
04-05-2011 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 429 by Robert Byers
04-05-2011 12:53 AM


Its like they are saying my sides ideas are illegal in schools but in no way is the state giving a opinion on their accuracy.
Hogwash.
The state is not neutral.
The state is neutral. If your creation myth is taught then every other creation myth must be taught. That is what the ban is about. Do you realize how long it would take to teach 999 creation myths?
Creation myths are taught in schools, in the right places ie:
Ancient History when studying the ancient peoples or in a course on comparative religions.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 429 by Robert Byers, posted 04-05-2011 12:53 AM Robert Byers has not replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 486 of 609 (611705)
04-10-2011 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 481 by Dawn Bertot
04-10-2011 3:25 AM


When you can demonstrate, outside of your own desires, that such is a requirement for the design principle to not be valid, in and of itself, by order and law alone, your point would have validity. As such it does not
I dont know absolutely the ultimate source of the materials that allows gravity to work, but hey, guess what, it does
Is it true that law and order exist? As such it is sufficient to establish a valid argument, scientific in nature that allows the design principle. Only a fool or a person void of any reasoning abilites would deny such a simple principle
Again if you would explain why these two are necessary and why they would invalidate the argument as such, it might make your contention more reasonable
Otherwise your just rambling
Dawn Bertot
What has this to do with whether creationism should be taught in science classes?

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-10-2011 3:25 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

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