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Author Topic:   If you were God, what kind of God would you be?
Straggler
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 31 of 247 (520009)
08-19-2009 1:08 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Blue Jay
08-18-2009 5:30 PM


Re: Boredom
Can omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent gods get bored?
I made the comment reasonably flippantly but I have been thinking about this more seriously.
Does being omniscient, in the sense of knowing everything, equate to having experienced everything? Is knowing what it is like to do or feel something the same as undergoing the actual experience itself?
Would an omnipotent, omniscient god crave perpetual experience rather than just "knowing"? Experience gained through omnipresence and ones "creations"
I think answering John 10:10's question would require a paradigm shift of epic-infinite, multi-dimensional proportions. Anyone who actually can answer John 10:10's question is surely selling themselves short.
I think you are right. But it is kinda fun trying. Whether flippantly or more seriously.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Blue Jay, posted 08-18-2009 5:30 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Blue Jay, posted 08-19-2009 12:42 PM Straggler has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 866 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 32 of 247 (520010)
08-19-2009 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by John 10:10
08-17-2009 1:32 PM


Mr. Softy
John 10:10 writes:
(1) What kind of God would you be if you could be God?
Well for one thing I would give every single person the paradise they envisioned upon the death of the body.
That means the fundies would get the streets of gold, the continuous hosannas to the supreme deity, the authoritarian structure they are so hot for, and the elimination of heterosexual physical love they are not for -- and most important, the illusion of that smug feeling they can get when seeing everyone they didn't like, who looked or thought differently and chose not to even try to understand, a good toasting in that Dante version of hell that supersedes the Bible.
And then after some time and they all became bored out of their skulls and wanting to commit suicide, I would tell them that it is exactly what they demanded of me as a supreme being.
Now for someone like jar, who has a version of paradise where people keep learning and discovering new things, I would provide them exactly that version of paradise that they desire. They would probably be so busy enjoying such a paradise, the thought of suicide would be unfathomable.
For a pantheist like myself, I would allow the better parts to become a part of me (as a god) and would throw away the parts which are undesirable. However, I would want to be absolutely certain and would reincarnate such people through different realities as a sort of purification. After all, one mark of omnipotence is to know thyself through always questioning one's decisions.
Piss me off and you get a continuous loop of the theme to the Twilight Zone.
(2) What kind of cosmos would you have created?
One with challenges so the lifeforms don't get so bored they desire suicide.
(ABE} Heaven
Heaven is a place
Where nothing
Nothing ever happens
-Talking Heads{/ABE}
Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by John 10:10, posted 08-17-2009 1:32 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2325 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 33 of 247 (520011)
08-19-2009 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by John 10:10
08-18-2009 9:29 PM


Re: If you were God, what kind of God would you be?
John 10:10 writes:
What unbelievers are really saying is that they are UNWILLING to seriously consider what it would be like to be God because they don't want there to be a God, and they don't want to look foolish trying to explain how they could be a better God than the ONE revealed in the Bible.
No. What we're saying is we can't possibly conceive of being omnipotent, omniscient and all that other stuff. Can you? Would you mind explaining then what it's like? Not just what the words mean, we know that, but what it would actually feel like, and how you know it would feel like that? Further, being a "better" god than the one in the bible (who certainly isn't omnipotent, or omniscient) isn't very hard. First of all, I'd make it absolutely clear I exist, and not condemn people to eternal torture just because I wasn't willing to make things clear.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by John 10:10, posted 08-18-2009 9:29 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 34 of 247 (520012)
08-19-2009 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by John 10:10
08-18-2009 9:29 PM


Re: If you were God, what kind of God would you be?
John 10:10 writes:
What unbelievers are really saying is that they are UNWILLING to seriously consider what it would be like to be God because they don't want there to be a God, and they don't want to look foolish trying to explain how they could be a better God than the ONE revealed in the Bible.
I wonder why you are asking us this question when the answer has been staring you in the face from the moment you began to read the Bible. The God of the Bible, or any other god for that matter, is the product of people through the ages seriously trying to consider what it would be like to be God. They wrote down that God made them in his image, but in reality it's the other way round: they made God in their image. The God of the Bible is a mischievous, jealous, bloodthirsty petty tyrant. Almost human, actually. But he has superpowers. That's the part where people went: "If I were God, I'd be just like me, but I'd have these awesome powers." That's nice for comic books, but to take it seriously is pathetic.
Anyway, to answer your question once more: I would be a God who shouted from the heavens to humanity: "Grow up!", and then I'd vanish forever.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by John 10:10, posted 08-18-2009 9:29 PM John 10:10 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Peg
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 35 of 247 (520013)
08-19-2009 2:27 AM


i thought we were already gods? Isnt that what A&E wanted, to become more like God. And isnt that what eating of the tree made them? More like God!
We are self governed and independent, we make our own rules and live by our own standards. You only need to look at the state of our world and societies and you can clearly see the types of gods we have become.

Replies to this message:
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anglagard
Member (Idle past 866 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 36 of 247 (520014)
08-19-2009 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Peg
08-19-2009 2:27 AM


Some Prefer Adulthood
Peg writes:
i thought we were already gods? Isnt that what A&E wanted, to become more like God. And isnt that what eating of the tree made them? More like God!
We are self governed and independent, we make our own rules and live by our own standards. You only need to look at the state of our world and societies and you can clearly see the types of gods we have become.
Seems like you still haven't gotten over being weaned.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Peg, posted 08-19-2009 2:27 AM Peg has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 37 of 247 (520043)
08-19-2009 6:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by John 10:10
08-17-2009 1:32 PM


LOL! I know the answers these guys will give without reading their responses. Basically;
"NOT a God like the bible-God"
But the problem is, that idolatry starts in the heart, when men think that they know better than God.
This is why we have such a wonderful system of rape, murder, adultery, theft, violence....Because men go it alone without God, thinking he doesn't know anything, yet blaming him for everything that happens.
Bizarre but true my friend.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by John 10:10, posted 08-17-2009 1:32 PM John 10:10 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 38 of 247 (520045)
08-19-2009 6:33 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Parasomnium
08-19-2009 2:04 AM


Re: If you were God, what kind of God would you be?
The God of the Bible is a mischievous, jealous, bloodthirsty petty tyrant. Almost human, actually. But he has superpowers.
That sounds impressive Para', but the truth is that it is your opinion, having read a few verses of the bible, and not understaning it on any other level than syntax.
God created everything how he wanted it in the beginning. Men chose blood, jealousy, and mischief.
You can't just expect your woefully ignorant opinion to have any weight.
People study the scriptures, and meditate on it, to find out what it means. Afterall, you are logical - you will know that the Jewish writers aren't going to write a bad report on God. They believed, and you don't - yet you think you have the correct meaning?
You talk as if the bible is a true report on God's character, but you don't believe any of it happened.
God, in the flesh, is Jesus Christ. If you have seen Him you have seen the Father, and who he is.
Did he come with violence? Or did he come and submitt to violent men?
You haven't even understood the sovereignty or holiness of God. Have you even studied the hypothetics behind a perfect system?
Why does it say in Revelation that not even a liar can enter heaven, or anything that offends? Why does it say in Leviticus that if a man touched the mountain he would die? why did they have to wash themselves, and atone for themselves, for a whole day, before God came down.
You make these judgements, but you don't know who you are making them about. You just make them based on an opinion of the typical syntax-level the atheist operates from, and you insult my God.
Who do you think you are? You must be a perfect person to judge in this manner. You must have never lied, stolen, deceived, lusted, offended, got angry, etc,....
Are you so clever, yet with no eyes?
You don't know that you are making statements about the living God who gave you life. You are breathing His air, and in the same breath you insult your provider.
Does He who made the eye, not see? Does He who planted the ear, not hear?
God can kill me right now, spill my guts and make me suffer, and will that make him evil? God craeted me, and God can destroy me.
The sin of this earth is rampant, and yet you think God has sin? This Godless system you entertain must be perfect! There mustn't be any rape, murder, abortion, lying, stealing, cheating, violence. Yes?
Come back when the world has no sin, when you have no sin, and then judge my Holy God.
Otherwise shut up. Hold the tongue if it holds no knowledge of My God who died for me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Parasomnium, posted 08-19-2009 2:04 AM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by lyx2no, posted 08-19-2009 8:56 AM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 44 by themasterdebator, posted 08-19-2009 10:15 AM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 45 by themasterdebator, posted 08-19-2009 10:19 AM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 51 by Parasomnium, posted 08-19-2009 1:23 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4746 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 39 of 247 (520071)
08-19-2009 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by mike the wiz
08-19-2009 6:33 AM


Pathetic Redux
You can't just expect your woefully ignorant opinion to have any weight.
And yet yours somehow does? Worse even, your opinion goes against all observation. It's intentionally to be and remain ignorant.
Otherwise shut up. Hold the tongue if it holds no knowledge of My God who died for me.
A wise man once asked "How does one distinguish faith from delusion?" How you've not made exibit A I do not understand.
And to make a comment relevant to the topic: One can no more imagine perfect existence than perfect non-existence. That we can not imagine ourselves dead and gone is what leads us to think we'll be other. But Heaven for most is merely what they have now but without the milk jug being put away empty.

It's not the man that knows the most that has the most to say.
Anon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by mike the wiz, posted 08-19-2009 6:33 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 40 of 247 (520073)
08-19-2009 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Parasomnium
08-18-2009 5:37 PM


Parasomnium is God?
(I was stargazing last week, and cracked a Russell related joke to myself when I saw it - couldn't resist bringing it up here, sorry).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Parasomnium, posted 08-18-2009 5:37 PM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 41 of 247 (520074)
08-19-2009 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by mike the wiz
08-19-2009 6:17 AM


But the problem is, that idolatry starts in the heart, when men think that they know better than God.
And blind faith starts in the head - when people think they know what God wants or is.
You equate 'god' with 'God of the Bible'. I don't do that. If the question had been "What would you do if you were the God of the Bible", the answer is "What the God of the Bible did.", instead the question is what would you do (ie., not the God of the Bible) so the answer is obviously going to be "Not what the God of the Bible did." unless we happen to think similarly to the God of the Bible. You might think you do, but I don't.
abe: Incidentally - a lot of people said they would make their existence known. The God of the Bible did this - with spectacular miracles and curses and punishments and he would make it clear that he was the cause of the diseases, the natural disasters, the bolt of energy that killed transgessors, setting fire to meat covered in water etc etc. No god that exists is doing anything of that ilk now - and people are just saying they would not let generations go by guessing as to their existence. It isn't just the God of the Bible they are not acting like - it is every god that could exist and be consistent with our collective experiences.
You think that is the start of idolatry?
This is why we have such a wonderful system of rape, murder, adultery, theft, violence....Because men go it alone without God
If a messiah and a prophet can commit murder, adultery and engage in violence then I don't see how less blessed people, however much they try to go it with God have any hope of constructing a better system.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by mike the wiz, posted 08-19-2009 6:17 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 42 of 247 (520079)
08-19-2009 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by John 10:10
08-18-2009 9:29 PM


Re: If you were God, what kind of God would you be?
How about you telling us your answers then we might get some ideas? Or is it sacrilegious for you to consider such a thing?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 43 of 247 (520081)
08-19-2009 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by mike the wiz
08-19-2009 6:17 AM


But the problem is, that idolatry starts in the heart, when men think that they know better than God.
This is why we have such a wonderful system of rape, murder, adultery, theft, violence....Because men go it alone without God, thinking he doesn't know anything, yet blaming him for everything that happens.
Bizarre but true my friend.
How about quitting the preaching and dealing with the topic.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by mike the wiz, posted 08-19-2009 6:17 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
themasterdebator
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 247 (520084)
08-19-2009 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by mike the wiz
08-19-2009 6:33 AM


Re: If you were God, what kind of God would you be?
Mike, now you have gone completely off topic and started preaching. If you want to create another topic about what Jesus or God did to save us, please do so. If you want us to tell you how we would behave if we were in situations similar to the Christian God, please do so. Remember, most of us don't think of a god solely in Christian terms, so your original question simply had us acting as an omnipotent being. We need some context to answer it.
Edited by themasterdebator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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themasterdebator
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 247 (520085)
08-19-2009 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by mike the wiz
08-19-2009 6:33 AM


Re: If you were God, what kind of God would you be?
People study the scriptures, and meditate on it, to find out what it means. Afterall, you are logical - you will know that the Jewish writers aren't going to write a bad report on God. They believed, and you don't - yet you think you have the correct meaning?
You are ignoring the context. The Jewish writers viewed other races as inferior and subhuman. Whole sale genocide of animals was not a problem for them. Same with views towards women and slavery. None of these things were problems for the writers. It is only in the modern context where we view all races as human and women as more than property that people start taking issues with Biblical statements.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by mike the wiz, posted 08-19-2009 6:33 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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