GOD IS DEAD

We will likely not recognise the purpose even if we see it(provided there is one). Although with our highly developed minds we think we are something special, we are not. We are of no better purpose to the universe than a puddle of water. That's the sad part, we are here by chance and for no reason. I guess my mission on earth is to find out what i am and why I am here. Seeing the answers i am confronted with - this can do nothing but sadden me. It's not hard to understand - you just have to look from another angle.Maybe Nietzsche's mission was the same as mine and leaving out the idea of God, he came to the same conclusions, despite the fact that he didn't have all the evidence that we now have. But you definitely have to have Nietzsche mindset to understand his ideas.BTW what does the "AM: colour line" below the thread name mean?Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

Okay. I can accept this as true. What? Where did all this come from?1. You just stated that we may not recognize the purpose of the Universe even if we see it. From that you conclude that it is necessarily so that this purpose does not exist?...that's some pretty bad logic.2. You do not know your own purpose, you automatically assume that a puddle of water has a "low" purpose. You assume that "a purpose to the Universe" is, for some reason, worthy of acknowledgement in the first place. And then you jump to the conclusion that all this adds up to something that must be extremely important in some negative sense of overall personal worth....it's difficult to pick out anything rational at all.3. You seem to assume that if we are here for no reason at all, then it is impossible for us to gain a reason for ourselves. Even after I've repeatedly shown this stance to be false, and provided some reasons that are better than anything you can possibly imagine (what more could you hope for!). If I need a mindset that is illogical, irrational, and comes with a pitiful imagination to understand these ideas... I'm not sure if those ideas are worth pursuing.

I'm not sure. I don't see this anywhere. Maybe you need to reload the page in your browser?Oh, nevermind, I see it.AM is the "Activity Level Meter".
It is a rough-guide line for how active the thread is.
Sort of a comparison of activity for the last while on the board vs. activity for the last while on each specific thread.Green/Low = A few recent posts.
Yellow/Mid = A bunch of recent posts.
Red/High = A lot of recent posts.Edited by Stile, : Saw what you were talking about

I said "PROVIDED THERE IS ONE". I never believed there to be one(purpose). So your assertion that I have concluded something is illogical. Simple and basic reading comprehension.

I have no idea why reading comprehension is so hard for you. I said our purpose in the universe is not more special than that of a puddle of water. Earlier in the same thread i said we don't have a purpose, so anyone that's conscious could conclude that we both(humans and puddles) do not serve any purpose.
I never said the puddle has low purpose, I said it had NO purpose.To tell you the truth I have no idea what you are talking about

If it maxes out, it means there have been (if I'm remembering correctly) 50 posts written in the last 48 hours.

...said the Hedonist. You definitely don't need something that's illogical, irrational and comes with a pitiful imagination to understand these ideas. You just need pleasure in life. That's enough for you, I understand, you don't have to over-state that.

Where, in that quoted segment, did Stile purport to need only the hedonistic lifestyle?You really ought to stop putting words into people's mouths (something you've been doing throughout this thread).Quite frankly, this whole discussion about purpose is inane. Instead of complaining, go do something useful. Like whine about poison in milk.

You started cluttering my thread with your personal drama. I never complained about my life, my pets, anything personal as this was not the topic of the thread. Maybe it's time you go have a cup of that blend of 60 animal hormones. It may even give you new meaning to your life.

Look how Rahvin responded to this thread in the beginning of it:"There is nothing suggesting that the Universe has any objective "purpose" of any sort, and likewise with our own existence. I don't require the very existence of the Universe to have any purpose or meaning, of course (since such a thing is not necessary for the Universe to exist), so the prospect of the Universe in fact not having any objective meaning (I cringe at the oxymoron "objective meaning")or purpose doesn't really bother me."How could Rahvin understand the topic from the first read when it took you both with Stile, 2 days?

Love, balance and enlightment(his higher purpose) were chosen by Stile because they give him pleasure, amusemnet and joy. They are still a hedonistic motive for life. Are you sure you know what Hedonism means?

Are you sure you can read?I was asking about this statement: Where is hedonism mentioned in this statement.Not his entire post, but just that small portion you quoted. It's a great example of you putting words into other people's mouths.I also have yet to read Stile write that his four "purposes" are actually his purposes, or that he thinks of them for his own pleasure. That is you putting words into his mouth.How can we honestly debate you when you can't read and can't comprehend and like to make up stories about other people?

Funny how you say that, and yet I see Stile and Kuresu saying things that are remarkably similar to what I said.And of course your ranting about hedonism is irrelevant. Hedonism is the persuit of maximum personal pleasure for its own sake with no additional considerations. This is an entirely different ethical framework from what Stile described. They do not constitute hedonsim, Agobot. Not at all. One can derive joy from meeting one's ethical goals without being hedonistic. Christians who give to the poor frequently find that they feel joy at doing so - does this make them hedonists? Devoutly religious people express joy during worship services - are they, too, hedonists?Let's paint a few scenarios here:1) John lives his life to the fullest. Every scrap of money earns, he spends to have fun. He refuses to stay tied down in a single relationship, instead having frequent sex with as many people as possible because he enjoys the experience. He doesn't care who he hurts, or whether anyone else is having as much fun as he - for him, the purpose of his life is to maximize his personal pleasure with no further considerations.2) Tom seeks education and knowledge throughout his life, beleiving that education is a virtue for its own sake and ignorance a waste of life. He also believes it's important to live responsibly, and with consideration for the people around him. As such, he leads a well-balanced life devoid of any radical expenditures, takes reasonable vacations, and tries to maximize the love in his life, including friends, family, and basic human empathy for the betterment of everyone. He finds that leading such a balanced and positive lifestyle gives him great joy.By your standards, Agobot, both John and Tom are hedonists, becasue they are both "motivated by joy." It's pretty clear that this is not the case, however - Tom may derive joy from his life, but that's not the sole definition of hedonism. Further, the joy he receives is not his motivation. He feels joy as a result of living what he beleives to be a responsible, ethical, and positive life. For a hedonist like John, the feelings of pleasure are the only goal, and the actions he takes are simply a means to that end. Further, "joy" and "pleasure" are different thing - or do you really beleive there is no difference between feeling joy at having improved the life of a loved one and feeling pleasure from having sex?Do you see the difference? I think it's pretty clear.Obviously, this has little to do with any universal "purpose," but then you were the one who called Stile a hedonist. The remainder of the threads derailment was a series of attempts to show you that you were incorrect in your assessment.Personal "purpose" and "meaning" may not be the topic you had in mind, but they are the answer to the question "why am I here?", and that question is what you were attempting to answer with a grand universal "purpose" in the first place. The fact that you're disappointed that there is no grand "purpose" from a higher power is simply an emotional reaction on your part and not in any way related to logic, reason, or reality.

I agree, you are right about the hedonistic part, i may have misunderstood the concept behind "hedonism". But i have no intention of letting that derail the discussion about the impact(if any) of the abscence of meaning and purpose for the existence of the universe on us humans.
As seen from the discussion, not everyone is concerned that life serves no purpose in this world, that there doesn't seem to be a masterplan behind the workings of the universe and that our lives are completely meaningless to its the existence. Being an atheist, I think there is a fairly large portion of the atheists that are bothered by these facts, but they won't come out as they probably think this could potentially undermine their atheistic positions.
As far as I am concerned, I am an atheist and I am not ashamed to acknowledge(like Nietzsche in the OP) that i am bothered to a great extent that Life is a random side effect of a meaningless and purposeless diffusion of dust.
But there is one thing Nietzsche probably didn't take into account - the fact that Natural Selection has probably already weeded out quite well the genes that could cause humans to see no point to live. Or he simply overestimated religion or the importance of God or afterlife(when and if the idea of the existence of God dies).I'd like to hear from the theists -
How would your life change if there was no God(let's assume for a minute there is no God)? Would you lose an important driving force for living, if you suddenly realised the universe and life did not serve any purpose and that we are merely "dust in the wind" as the song goes? Is it going to bother you that there is no next life with a countless possibilities to meet your loved ones and instead there is only a bleak, stone-cold END for each and everyone of you in a few decades. Could this bring apathy or as Nietzsche alludes rob you of desire to live to some extent?
(I always had the feeling they would scream in horror, seeing what a large role in their lives God plays, but i could be wrong).Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

You're still making the same mistake Nietzshe makes. You're assuming that a purpose for the Universe should be taken as "higher" or even "meaningful" in any way... with no reason whatsoever to do so.I've shown you that even if there is a purpose for the Universe it's extremely immature to acknowledge it as anything more important than the colour of a blind man's underwear.
Message 24
Message 38So why would anyone be "bothered to a great extent" about something that's pretty much bottom-of-the barrel on any meaningful scale of importance?The problem isn't that you cannot discern a purpose for the Universe.
The problem is that you mistakingly think such a thing carries any signifigance in the first place. I agree with you. But, like you, they are also making the mistake of thinking such a thing is actually important, when it really isn't. That's what happens when someone focuses their life around things that are not based in reality. They end up with a skewed scale of what's really important. Some of those things may not even be real in the first place. Just because the human mind is capable of imagination, doesn't mean we should be basing all the important aspects of our lives around it.