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Author Topic:   Kingdom on Earth (Re: Barack Obama comments)
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 271 of 308 (441224)
12-16-2007 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by Buzsaw
12-16-2007 7:05 PM


Mor Buz misrepresentation?
Buz says "OBAMA ON ISRAEL:" and then posts the following:
Given the anti-Semitism that is sadly so often associated with other leaders and groups that have emphasized black separatism and empowerment (think Louis Farrakhan, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton) perhaps some qualms might be warranted, particularly given some of the actions and statements of the Church's minister.
Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Jr. is the long-time Pastor of Obama's church, and Obama has credited him as being an inspiration and guiding light for him. He is a spiritual mentor to Obama and coined the term the "audacity of hope" that Obama has essentially made a theme of his campaign as well as the title of a book. He also has, in the words of the Chicago Tribune, a militant past.
Moreover, Pastor Wright has beliefs that might disturb some of Obama's supporters. He is a believer in "liberation theology," which makes the liberation of the oppressed a paramount virtue. The language of liberation all too often veers off into anti-Jewish rants. For example, one of the founders of the movement, Gustavo Gutierrez, has stated that the infidelities of the Jewish people made the Old Covenant [between the Jews and God] invalid." Pastor Wright is also a supporter of Louis Farrakhan, and in 1984 traveled with him to visit Col. Muammar al-Gadaffi, an archenemy of Israel's and America and a firm supporter of terror groups.
Wright has also been a severe critic of Israel. In his own words,
The Israelis have illegally occupied Palestinian territories for almost 40 years now. It took a divestment campaign to wake the business community up concerning the South Africa issue. Divestment has now hit the table again as a strategy to wake the business community up and to wake Americans up concerning the injustice and the racism under which the Palestinians have lived because of Zionism.
Buz, where in that smear piece is there a quote from Obama?
3. Protestant via the Reformation and the Constitution prevented forced religion and persecution in North America.
Ah, bullshit Buz. Tell that to the Native Americans whose religions were persecuted, who were forced into Christianity and who were killed by Christian Genocide.
CONCERN 2: A MUSLIM PRESIDENT MIGHT BE INCLINED TO UNDERMINE THE US SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL.
Why should we support Israel?
PLEASE NOTE: MY CONCERN IS NOT THAT A MUSLIM PRESIDENT WOULD IMMEDIATELY WORK TO FORCE ISLAM UPON AMERICA. MY CONCERN IS THAT ONE MIGHT BE INCLINED TO UNDERMINE THE WAR ON TERRORISM. OBAMA DECLARES HE WOULD BRING GROOPS HOME BY SPRING, 08.
What the hell does the War in Iraq have to do with the War on Terror? Even the Bush Administration gave up beating that dead horse.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Buzsaw, posted 12-16-2007 7:05 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Buzsaw, posted 12-16-2007 9:11 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 280 of 308 (441248)
12-16-2007 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Buzsaw
12-16-2007 9:11 PM


Buz continues to misrepresent the truth.
There needn't be a direct quote to make my point. Note the embolding (which is mine)
So you see absolutely nothing wrong with making stuff up and then attributing to someone and even claiming that they said it?
Once again Buz, where in that smear post is there anything from "OBAMA ON ISRAEL:"?
For those who missed the quote in Message 268, here it is yet again:
Given the anti-Semitism that is sadly so often associated with other leaders and groups that have emphasized black separatism and empowerment (think Louis Farrakhan, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton) perhaps some qualms might be warranted, particularly given some of the actions and statements of the Church's minister.
Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Jr. is the long-time Pastor of Obama's church, and Obama has credited him as being an inspiration and guiding light for him. He is a spiritual mentor to Obama and coined the term the "audacity of hope" that Obama has essentially made a theme of his campaign as well as the title of a book. He also has, in the words of the Chicago Tribune, a militant past.
Moreover, Pastor Wright has beliefs that might disturb some of Obama's supporters. He is a believer in "liberation theology," which makes the liberation of the oppressed a paramount virtue. The language of liberation all too often veers off into anti-Jewish rants. For example, one of the founders of the movement, Gustavo Gutierrez, has stated that the infidelities of the Jewish people made the Old Covenant [between the Jews and God] invalid." Pastor Wright is also a supporter of Louis Farrakhan, and in 1984 traveled with him to visit Col. Muammar al-Gadaffi, an archenemy of Israel's and America and a firm supporter of terror groups.
Wright has also been a severe critic of Israel. In his own words,
The Israelis have illegally occupied Palestinian territories for almost 40 years now. It took a divestment campaign to wake the business community up concerning the South Africa issue. Divestment has now hit the table again as a strategy to wake the business community up and to wake Americans up concerning the injustice and the racism under which the Palestinians have lived because of Zionism.
Where is the quote that shows "OBAMA ON ISRAEL:" or is this just another example of you simply making stuff up and your smear tactics?
Did you also note that the part you highlighted is not even related to a Muslim but to Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Jr. who happens to be a Christian Pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ that has as its motto, "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian"?
Can you explain how smear quotes of a Christian Pastor can be related to "CONCERN 2: A MUSLIM PRESIDENT MIGHT BE INCLINED TO UNDERMINE THE US SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL."?

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Buzsaw, posted 12-16-2007 9:11 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Buzsaw, posted 12-16-2007 9:51 PM jar has replied
 Message 292 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2007 7:57 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 283 of 308 (441255)
12-16-2007 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Buzsaw
12-16-2007 9:51 PM


Re: Buz continues to misrepresent the truth.
This is a strawman. My point by the quote was the anti-Semitism and militant radicalism of Obama's key mentor and the false notion of his mentor that Israel should receive no support. Would we really want a president who's lauded mentor espouses Louis Farrakan's anti-Semitic hatred of Israel to the extent which the pastor's quote depicts?
No Buz it is not a strawman as anyone who reads your Message 268 can see.
In addition there is nothing in the quote that shows any anti-semitic hatred of Israel.
Note to all:
you never have answered the questions:
Why should we fear a Muslim President?
or
Why should we support Israel?
Finally, there is nothing in the quote you supplied that says Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Jr. "espouses Louis Farrakan's anti-Semitic hatred of Israel ".
Why do you keep making shit up?
The closest you can even come to such a position is that the unknown author of the smear stuff claims "Pastor Wright is also a supporter of Louis Farrakhan, and in 1984 traveled with him to visit Col. Muammar al-Gadaffi, an archenemy of Israel's and America and a firm supporter of terror groups." even though Muammar al-Gadaffi has repeatedly forsworn violence and terrorism.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Buzsaw, posted 12-16-2007 9:51 PM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 293 of 308 (441480)
12-17-2007 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Buzsaw
12-17-2007 7:57 PM


Re: Buz continues to misrepresent the truth.
There are all varieties of Christians, Jar including you and me who are as far apart in practice and ideology as one can get. Some like Obama's mentor obviously thinks and acts like Louis Farrakhan. My variety doesn't.
Your claim was related to a Muslim in the White House and alleging that the quotation represented "Obama on Israel:" while there was not one single bit of truth on those points in the quotation you provided.
WHY DO YOU WASTE EVC'S BANDWIDTH WITH REPEATED LONG MESSAGES AND QUOTES TO ACCOMPLISH NOTHING PRODUCTIVE TO THE DISCUSSION?
When you stop posting absolute falsehoods, misdirection and misrepresentation I will stop pointing out such events. All you need to do is stop misrepresenting the truth and posting absolute falsehoods and I will stop calling you on them as I was forced to do in Message 271, Message 280 and Message 283.
I don't much worry about Louis Farrakhan's Christianity but honestly, your brand is the most frighting threat the world faces right now.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2007 7:57 PM Buzsaw has not replied

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