Kingdom on Earth (Re: Barack Obama comments)

So much so that he made them all up.

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If it's truly good and powerful, it deserves to engender a thousand misunderstandings. -- Ben Ratcliffe

Let's see. Someone actually went to the school and noted that it's not a madrassa and not connected to the Wahabbi movement in anyway and not significantly different from any other sectarian (of any faith) or secular school in that country.Meanwhile, the story that Obama was or is a Muslim can only be traced back to unsubstantiated email and blog campaign with no known provenance.So the sensible thing to do is...suspect that Obama might impose Sharia law in the U.S.?You know, Buz, I used to think you were a narrow minded, unreasoning bigot. But now it's clear that actually you are a bona fide lunatic, and this is a lot of fun!

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If it's truly good and powerful, it deserves to engender a thousand misunderstandings. -- Ben Ratcliffe

But we did have a Catholic in the White House. For almost three years. There were no "bloody inquisitions" during that time. This seems to counter the notion that one can predict the policies of a particular president based on a simplistic (and incorrect) understanding of that individuals religion.

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If it's truly good and powerful, it deserves to engender a thousand misunderstandings. -- Ben Ratcliffe

Heh. You know the answer to this one, nator. Every Christian is a true Scotsman. Or something like that.

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If it's truly good and powerful, it deserves to engender a thousand misunderstandings. -- Ben Ratcliffe

Sure, and we can play devil's advocate and consider the possibility that Obama ingested a radioactive substance and became a mutant bent on using the resources of the United States to destroy all humanity.It's one thing to play devil's advocate in a bar room discussion while drunk off your ass; it's a different matter to bring up silliness and claim it's a serious political discussion.- People attend religious schools all the time without being adherents to that religion; people can formally belong to a religion while having only a lukewarm commitment to it; and, finally, not once have I ever seen you demonstrate that you have any understanding at all of Islam or Muslims.

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It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibi

And we did have a Catholic in office. During the part of his term that he served, he neither presided over nor tried to implement religious persecution or extermination of segments of the citizenry, and the main violence for which he was responsible, namely the war in Vietnam, was one that was supported and eventually escalated by non-Catholics, and it was especially supported by conservative evangelical Protestant Christians.Edited by Chiroptera, : Added the last clause.

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It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

Hi, H. I'm not contradicting you here, just adding a few extra thoughts. Not only that, but most Islamic scholars also fee that it is important to interpret all of these verses in their proper historical context, that is, the situation faced by Mohammed's followers (specific acts of betrayal, for example, or treaties that are invalid because they were first broken by the infidels).- Me, I have always maintained that Islam is what Muslims actually believe and do, and Christianity is what Christians actually believe and do. One can cherry pick whatever verses one wants from the Qur'an or the Bible, and can point to whatever Islamic faction or Evangelical sect one wants, but in the end it is what the actual adherents themselves say and do that matters.Edited by Chiroptera, : clarificationEdited by Chiroptera, : Agh! Previous version has been answered and quoted -- reverting to the original to avoid confusion.

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It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

Huh. I'm not sure what you mean here, Buz. The point is, you made some remarks about how one should, as a general principle, be averse to a Catholic President because of the behavior of some Catholics during a certain time and a certain place; it turns out that a Catholic was elected despite his being a Catholic because people actually looked at his record and at what he stood for; they didn't let worries about some secret Catholic agenda stand in his way. And, sure enough, none of the fears of the paranoid anti-Catholics were instantiated.In the same way, even if Obama were a Muslim, his suitability for office should be judged solely on the actual record that he built up and the campaign statements that he makes consistent with this record; fears of some secret Muslim agenda are just paranoia.- Exactly right. The brutality and/or benevolence of any religion is going to be based on societal norms. Christian Catholics in 18th century South America were brutal; Christian Quakers in 19th century North America were instrumental in the Abolitionist movement. Muslims in Afghanistan want to impose Sharia law; Muslims in Turkey are committed to secularism.- Funny how they weren't so successful at preventing African slavery or Native American ethnic cleansing.- Heck, you don't have to be a Muslim for that. Most of us against the so-called "war on terrorism" are not Muslim.- Heck, you don't have to be a Muslim for that, if by "US support for Israel" you mean unconditional support for Israel's colonialism. Most of us who are against Israel's brutalization of the Palestinians are not Muslim.-By the way, this isn't meant to derail the thread onto an off-topic discussion on the "War of Terrorism" or support for Israel's apartheid regime. Just pointing out that opposition to these things are not Muslim/non-Muslim issues. I would support a candidate who would oppose these things whether or not he was a Muslim.

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It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

Aw, shucks! And I wasn't even trying all that hard, neither.

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It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

Funny. I would think that withdrawal of US support would usher in the Second Coming that much more quickly.

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It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

If you like that one, you'll love this.

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It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi

There is no credible reason to believe that Obama is a Muslim.There is even less reason to believe that Obama harbors some secret "Muslim agenda".Added by edit:Well, I should add a few more details to make this a proper summary.There is no credible evidence that Obama is a Muslim. Those rumors have been traced to the internet smear-mongering rumor mill.There is no evidence that Obama harbors a secret "Muslim agenda". Obama a long record of public service, and one only needs to look at his record to guess at his not-so-secret "agenda". Also, there isn't even a world-wide "Muslim agenda" to begin with.This, I think, summarizes what I have been saying.Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.

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It has become fashionable on the left and in Western Europe to compare the Bush administration to the Nazis. The comparison is not without some superficial merit. In both cases the government is run by a small gang of snickering, stupid thugs whose vision of paradise is full of explosions and beautifully designed prisons. -- Matt Taibbi