Christmas Star Explained

So, when asked what you believe, you claimed it was that frog thing. Now you say it is pure fiction, as we all knew. So are all your answers lies, and fiction, or just ones that require an honest answer?? Paul said he met a man one time that made it to the seventh heaven! Add that to your list. Hell, and heaven have different levels! Get out the calculator!!!You seem to want to declare every part of heaven a new heaven. No. You want to look at the eternal spiritual realm as another heaven, just because it got removed, separated from our world!! No. It is true that there are also changes in heaven, and hell! Like New Jerusalem, is a shiny new change to heaven. But the inhabitants, many of them, lived long before that.How many levels to heaven, how many parts? Who knows? What part was the level near earth at the time of Babel, who know? But it was part of heaven. Why? How many times have you told us something you believe in!!!!!?? Get serious.By the way, if you don't want to be thought of as BELIEVING what you say, why start with "I believe"..??post 196you---"I believe it was a small cloud of bluish purple frogs with vampire teeth and a long fuzzy tail. They plan to rule the world by slowly taking over high ranking positions in government, and they eat babies. (hence their proximity to the newborn Jesus)" Yes, we can see you like to do make things up. Go ahead! Heaven is a many splendored thing, and a big place. Of course if it was made separate from the realm of men, it is not here any more. But that doesn't mean it isn't where it was separated to! I didn't say I assume all agree with me, or any on this board. I said I was not the only one reading this forum. It is read in the plural, as hilarious as that might seem to you.The issue of what state the spiritual places like heaven and hell are is a topic of interest. I haven't really locked into an opinion yet. Not that it matters muchI think it could matter, however, in regards to hell. The spiritual place in the interior of the earth. If that is in the forever state, or merged, it would explain why the center of the earth may not be hot.The physical assumptions and instruments we use would not recognize merged matter for what it is. It could get confused, and read it, say, as a liquid, or such. But I suppose that too, is another story.Edited by simple, : No reason given.Edited by simple, : No reason given.

Elements of it, such as the angels that assumed a physical body. But I think I covered all that in the last post, that man doesn't know the details of heaven. The bible does let us know what heaven will be like in the future, and what it is made of, and how we will be like Jesus, both physical and spiritual.
What I said was that it was separated from the realm of the physical only, where we are. It is no longer here. Fine, spiritual is a good way to look at heaven; What this has to do with anything heaven knows. Well, such a nice place likely has some use. Guess you could just say 'you have no idea' No, actually. That is a guess. It need be no more or less of this "semi solid" than it was before. All that is changed, as far as we know, is that we are no longer near it physically. Since Babel was on a plain as I pointed out, we don't need to look into the geology of mountains in the area, to see if they were created small mountains, or pushed up continental separation big ones. But whatever happened to earth's mountains, that can't change how heaven was or is. Only your possible access physically to it. Since you are getting all your ideas from me, why bother talking to you, unless you race to some form of point??? I think that whoever thought of the idea caught on before they died. I heard it from someone else, and decided it was the best possible fit of evidences and bible. I will admit, I may have spruced it up a bit, and fleshed it out somewhat. Try and pay attention. The wheels God flies in, and mobile throne are right there, plain as day in the bible. Ah, herein, lies your major fundamental error. No, absolutely not. If the universe was not this temporary physical only state, there is no reason to have PO laws at creation! I see it more as an original spiritual and physical combined eternal state universe, with it's forever laws. The separation came, leaving us in this state, with it's laws. Not the created state, or future state at all. It is not that our laws changed, the universe changed. Our laws are what we were left with, stop assuming they changed. No/ His concern was for us, that we not reach the spiritual level in a sinful and fallen state. We needed the savior first, that would start the process of changing man's hearts inside, before we get eternal life. Byt, as I dais, I think that the split was already on the way, because of our wickedness, and Babel just happened to be at the right time. It was not the big thing that caused the created universe state change. Balderdash. We couldn't reach heaven, and did not reach it. He knew that, by the time we could come close, the created state would no longer be here. There were many good reasons to have the created state hang around as long as it did. He was not out to control us, He could have made us robots from the garden. But He gave us free will. There was a bigger plan in play than controlling man. That could be done in a New York minute. I suppose if you find it appealing to imagine God as dead, missing in action, and unable to get a book to man that was true. See what I mean, you leave the bible as hogwash, and God as nowhere in the picture, with your interpretations. So. you think that it is a star, knowing that it could not possibly be a star, so you can have God as a nincompoop. OK. Your other moment of truth is accusing those that look at it, and believe it of doing what you were demonstrated to do here with your purple frog belief claim. How anal. And you think that helps your case. OK. I see. And you expect, what, a pat on the back, and a thank you for wasting our time in not being honest about your beliefs, or dealing with the topic????? Strange. There are many readers, so when you pull your absurdities out of your nether regions, it sometimes is appropriate to note that 'we' can see what is going on.Just as all can see you have no case for the topic. Edited by simple, : No reason given.

The could have built up to it, the only question is what would they find when they got there??? The building up is easy, it is physical. We don't know what that spiritual level was like. I gave my opinion, that, had they reached it, they may have gotten eternal life somehow. But, really, we don't know that, do we?? How it would have affected them, or what it was exactly like I don't see why you want to pretend you know? That is not proof it was merged. Why you post such foolishness, I don't know. From your demonstrated tendency to try and make the bible, and God look silly (as in the claim you make that the Christmas star was meant to be real, but really never was stuff)I can only guess that is the reason.
Jesus came once as a man, as the messiah. The other acts of His in creating earth, or visiting it with angels were business trips, like angels make here. His Messiah business was where our calendars are set to, as close as possible. Well, you could admit you don't have a clue. If you want to parrot my guess on that issue, you could say it could still be in use, but not in such a primary role. Repeating to you that it was not a change IN our laws, but a universe change with different laws doesn't seem to keep you from misrepresenting me. So we must note that you do that on purpose. The ancient bible term star meant many things that were a light in the night. Do some homework, before trying to comment. The mistake is only yours, as always! And you try to blame it on God and the bible as always. Work on that. Well, I already gave plenty that puts the Almighty in a flying object! It is also known that He has pleasure.Ps 147:11 - The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.Isa 46:10 - Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:Hec, He even likes us to have pleasure.Ps 16:11 - Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.Job 22:14 - Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.Ps 19:6 - His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.He gets around, He has pleasure, and wheels!! Any more questions?? But they were not our laws, they were not our fundamental forces, it was not our light, etc. The created laws changed, yes, and we ARE the change, and soon, they will change back, this is a temporary state. Write that down, it's a good one. That you could say till the cows come home, but not be able to prove it. The laws of physics are laws that apply to this temporary state, physical only universe. To science, yes. Of course. The created eternal state laws are to govern BOTH the spiritual and physical together. Separating the two, left us in a physical only universe. We were left with these laws. No one says these laws have changed, we are the change. If you want to talk about the spirutal laws, and forever state, why, you would need a whole lot more than science, that, as you know, by design is limited to the present natural!!! In the box. In the fishbowl of those firm, clear and present severe limitations. You seem to assume that spiritual level over Babel was all there was. No. Those guys had a reason to be near, as some even married earth girls. What, you want them to sire little giants, and take off forever??? This was likely a spiritual accommodation for spirits with business on earth. Whatever it was, it was a part of heaven that was just fine to be here as long as it was. The wickedness of man needed to be dampened, limited. In fact, the continents separating around then was a nice added insurance policy. If one got real wicked real fast, it would not spread fast. Until these days, of course, as predicted by the bible, we would run to and fro in the end. But, like the days of Babel, He is way ahead of us, and has plans to separate us real good, taking us clear out of the world, till it can be safe to come on back down and rule it forever the right way. You could say He provided Cain with temptation to kill Abel. No, He doesn't tempt. Man takes the good purposes of things, like a spiritual level nearby for our good, or a wooden club, and then uses it wickedly. Don't blame God. You seem to love to do that. No. But if they have a case for the star being something else, they can make it. And we can look at if it leaves God as true, and the bible, or not. Simple. Great, maybe it could be something your purple frogs could use as a toilet area??If God had a bible that misinterpreted something like the ensign of the birth of the messiah, I would save it, in case there was ever a toilet paper shortage. How have you meaningfully addressed the Christmas star, and the hows and wherefores of why, etc?? Off hand, all I recall is that you made a little statement that you think the bible is wrong, and it was a star. You hide your lack of belief, or religious beliefs, whatever the case may be. I have found that atheists generally are almost boastful of their atheism. Since you won't tell us, maybe I should guess? I can think of two types that I have noticed some hesitancy to be straight about their true beliefs. But, no... no need to go there. If all you offer stating you believe in it is purple frogs, fine. People can take that for what it is worth. But don't think that leaves you in a position to throw stones at the bible, loved, and believed by millions. Neither. I am the deceiver buster. The new testament was long after Sodom or the garden. It is also clear that Jesus never came as the son of man there. Pathetic.Edited by simple, : No reason given.Edited by simple, : No reason given.Edited by simple, : No reason given.

No, it is pretty clear who God is talking to. Another instance of God talking to satan through a king is in Isa 14.13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.As is is for the one king, so it is for the other ting. Depends if you read it as a spiritually minded man, or a natural man. Where does He say He broke the prophesy?? Nonsense. What is to not depart from the land, and people of Judah was something in particular. Not a stick. A sceptre. That was what would stay, the office of God, the rule and presence, etc of God, for a certain time period only, till Jesus came. Period. And, WHO was that Shepherd??! God. The rod was a symbol of that office, an ensign. Like the starship is a symbol of God's office, and was a sign at the first Chrismas. No it is God's office, over Judah. That included a UFO. The mobile throne as clearly described in the bible. His rule and Sceptre did continue till Jesus came, no broken squat. As already posted...
" Thy rod and thy staff
shibtecha, thy sceptre, rod, ensign of a tribe, staff of office; for so shebet signifies in Scripture. And thy staff, umishantecha, thy prop or support. "Psalms 23 - Clarke's Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.orgLook, and learn. Right, He started by bringing peace to the hearts of men of good will, that come to Jesus. Sorry if you think undoing the evil caused by Adam's sin was a quick fix!! It cost His life, and a few thousand years of hard work, not to mention the thousands of years of prep work, before man was even ready for Jesus to come. But we are on the verge of the second coming, when He will end all wars. False, Jesus hid who He really was from His disciples for a while, even after He rose, they thought He was the gardener! Angels are entertained unawares, as the bible puts it. Cloaked, or in disguise, is what this means. This is bible basics 101, and you think it is new material?? Well, many realize that the star did seem to disappear and reappear."for the Matthew text indicates that the star appeared, disappeared, and then reappeared and disappeared sometime later."
Page not found - Reasons to Believe"The next fact to notice is that the Star of Bethlehem made a sudden appearance. Literally, the Wise Men saw it “rising in the east” (Matt. 2:2). Presumably they had never seen anything like it. Otherwise, why would they have followed it? The star’s sudden emergence is confirmed by King Herod, who “called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared” (Matt. 2:7).The star disappeared just as suddenly as it appeared. This is why the Magi stopped in Jerusalem to ask for directions instead of going straight to Bethlehem. Then the star reappeared! This is the clear implication of verses 9 and 10: “After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they were overjoyed.”"
http://www.reformation21.org/Past_Issues/2006_Issues..."In support of the comet theory is the implication in the Matthew text that the "star" disappeared for a while before reappearing over Bethlehem. Comets cannot be seen when they pass behind the sun."
The star of Bethlehem: the Christmas star"These theories all fail to explain how "the star which they had seen in the east, went before them, until it came and stood over where the child was" (Matthew 2:9). The position of a fixed star in the heavens varies at most one degree each day. No fixed star could have so moved before the Magi as to lead them to Bethlehem; neither fixed star nor comet could have disappeared, and reappeared, and stood still. Only a miraculous phenomenon could have been the Star of Bethlehem. it was like the miraculous pillar of fire which stood in the camp by night during Israel's Exodus (Exodus 13:21), or to the "brightness of God" which shone round about the shepherds (Luke 2:9), or to "the light from heaven" which shone around about the stricken Saul (Acts 9:3)."CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: MagiNeed more??? This is not a secret, you treat it like I made this stuff up. An interesting, albeit, unsupportable opinion. There was no limitation saying only men wise about things like stars had to live in Iran. Even though they did have a Jewish girl there, that doesn't mean Iran sent them, or that they all came from Persia. Not at all so. The omission of the fact that it did get into the holy of holies in one bible book is in no way a clincher. Conversely, if there was a holy of holies with no ark in it, symbolizing the very presence of God, that would be documented six ways from Saturday. 'Gee, we still did all the rigmarole ceremonies, without the heart and soul of the temple, because.....' Or at least some records of it being not there. All you have is it simply not being recorded in Ezra. Whoopee do. Why else would God rip open the veil, and take it back?? Shiloh was here, and He was heading for higher ground now.It would be IMPOSSIBLE for the real presence of God in that ark to BE on earth!!! Jesus is the way to heaven now, and THE link with heaven. Shiloh is here. Any ark found is a replica, or some such, and not at all connected to heaven. If you don't believe me, when the "find" it, call me over, and I'll touch it, even knocky knock on it, and say, 'come out come out, wherever you are' on it, to prove I won't be killed by God, for so doing. It is in heaven as Rev 11:19 says. False. as just explained, Jesus assumed that role of link with the Father, nothing on earth else could exist, as such. When it is heaven you are going to, can you think of a better way??? It was seen when it wanted to be. It was like a Christmas light with dimmers. It could shine bright in the sky. It could come down low, and shine a great light on shepherds, no doubt. It could appear or dissapear, yet still be around. What else could do all that, and more???? Why? So, after all that, I could end up not believing it an any real way??? So I could think God does not fulfill prophesy, but it gets broken by man?? So I would think an ark, with the spirit of the Father is hiding in some dank tunnel cave, or someplace, and that Jesus dies in vain?? So I could believe the Christmas star is another fable, as are the flood, Babel, Eden, and etc??? Maybe it is you that need to take stock, and smell the roses.Edited by simple, : No reason given.Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Shorten display form of one URL, to restore page width to normal.

Because the spiritual level then, if my guess was right, would result in eternal bodies in a way that we are not now aware of, if we reached it. That is not precise, or physical only, as our universe now is. Therefore how could you know, IF it was merged, even, what that was like??? Just because it could have been both, doesn't mean the physical that was together with the spiritual, was physical only state, as you envision. If it was just a spiritual level, perhaps the physical bodies getting up there, and contacting the area directly would have resulted in a reaction of some kind?? Etc. Who knows?? There was a spiritual part of heaven close by, and that it would have somehow resulted in some change that was not good for man.
"...now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.." Gen 11:5Maybe it was something less than eternal life, but whatever it was, contact with the spiritual was not then a good thing for man. Stop denying. You claimed that the Christmas star was a star, and that the bible was plumb wrong. That, far as I can tell, is trying to make God inept, and silly. Then compare it to the bible for validity, and evidence, not either an unknown belief, or purple frogs. Prove it! Many realize that Jesus likely did visit man in the old testament. Not some secret doctrine there. Better just add it to the list of things you offer no counter belief or bible support for. [/qs]Had old laws, has current laws, will have old laws again. I hope that you all can take note of this.[/qs] Simple, the created state, a temporary state, then the created state returns when we are ready. Elementary. But they were not our laws, they were not our fundamental forces, it was not our light, etc. The created laws changed, yes, and we ARE the change, and soon, they will change back, this is a temporary state. Write that down, it's a good one. True. All they can do is look at the beauty of the present state. A mere shadow of things to come. So??? It's time someone burst your little bubble there. So? You can't deal in spiritual laws, live with it. All you can play with is the present ones. That is kindergarten stuff, compared to eternal state realities. And, what, He would not have allowed decay state atoms, because man would make nuclear bombs, and kill everyone too?? The heaven of the pre split era was close, but still beyond the reach of man. We lived on the cursed ground, if you remember. It was up till the time of Babel, about as hard for man to get to, as Stars in Orion are to fly to today.If not for the flood, I don't think they even would have all the slime needed to build such a thing. Part of using it is not to pretend we can Buzz Lightyear present realities into infinity and beyond. We like to know what you are testing it with. Maybe your tester is a deficient. Right, I think we got all that. What you present by your own admission, is baseless, and clearly not factual. OK. With a pretend statement of belief like that, how would you expect to be believed next time you offer a set of beliefs?? OK, so, in addition to your admitted baseless horror tales, you admit to having poor choice. Fine. Most people like honesty. You talk about humor, then get all wound up when your pretend froggie belief story is not presented in a gentle enough way for your liking?? Lighten up. What else am I supposed to hammer back in your side of the court, when that is the only ball you tossed???? Focus. Ok, so now the froggie belief is not a lie again. Fine. I thought you had said it was baloney. Only as required. There are at least seven heavens, though, as the bible says.
The flying throne is bible described.
And it is very widespread belief that the son was in a few places in the old testament. Hardly news.Da 7:13 - I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.And I have no idea how you think God in a starship loses powers?? No.Hec, sounds like it might be there again in that verse?? The clouds of heaven??? Sounds way up there. In this scene, Dad is giving some power to the son. Did you really think I made these things up??? Edited by simple, : No reason given.

Though not addressed to me, it is a false slur about me.
The leaders of Israel of Jesus' day did not write the bible. I already made clear that your obsessing on Ezra not listing it as returned, or whatever is trivial. I do not think that they could have changed actual old scriptures. I would hope so, anyhow.As I explained, the records that were likely affected were other things, that had to do with the life of Jesus. The reality that God reveals to His people, not to others is well established fact. Indisputable. Old, and new testaments.Lu 10:21 - In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.Dan 12:10 - Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.Da 10:1 - In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.Mt 13:11 - He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Oh, hec no. I have nothing that remotely disagrees with the bible, or the split.

I did have that reference wrong. You chose to naturalize the meaning of what is being said. That is an option, but then you miss almost everything that is really going on. A false natural only minded surface take on what God is saying is virtually worthless. If you try to explain away the spiritual, you have a worthless book. Do you have a fireplace??? It might be cold this winter, at least use it for something of value. Be honest. I looked at that chapter, and find refutation to your whole case.
"Jeremiah 33:15In those days, and at that time .
In those very selfsame days before spoken of; in those days to come, and which were hastening on; in the fulness of time, agreed on between Jehovah and his Son; the appointed, fixed, determined time: will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David;
not Zerubbabel, but the Messiah; who is not only a branch of David's family, and therefore said to grow up unto him, being of his seed, his son, and offspring; but a Branch of righteousness, or a righteous Branch; perfectly righteous in himself, and the author of righteousness unto others; which cannot be said of Zerubbabel, or of any other branch springing from David but the Messiah; and of him the Targum interprets it, paraphrasing it thus,``the Messiah of righteousness;''and Kimchi's note is,``this is the King Messiah;''and so it is by other Jewish writers interpreted of him: and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land;"!!! That's nice. So the stick will not depart from Judah!!! What natural only nonsense. Thanks for that. Absolutely false. Nothing could be more false than to deny the spirit, without which, there is only death.Ro 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.Gotcha. So the stick would not depart. How absurd. How ridiculously natural minded. That is not a problem, it was my point. Thanks for that. The ensign was not a stick. The office and rule was not a stick. The throne of David passed to messiah was not a piece of wood. Judah died. Remember??? The sceptre that was not taken from his tribe was God's office, not some stupid stick. Get a grip. It means the ruler, God, and whatever signs He gives. The sign of the Christmas star is an example, and that was not a stick. Really. Neither did dead old Judah have squat to do with it personally. Deal with it. It is not yet completed of course. They don't guide men to houses, or reappear on cue, as needed, after disappearing for what is obviously more than the normal day a star is not seen. That is ignorant. Nothing remotely similar to that, by any whacked out stretch of the natural mind.luke 24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. 16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.John 20:14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. If a star that is fixed moves before you, guiding you to the son of God, planets and stars have nothing, possibly to do with it. No. That is unknown, and assumed. If wise men traveled, you can't say they all had to start from the same country. Nowhere does it hint that the queen sent wise men to Israel. That is silly. No. The granddad that was the high priest, as the temple was destroyed was put to death. His grandson was right there, and built the alter, etc. Would they really start the sacrifices without the ark??? Celebrate the feast of tabernacles, etc?? I see no reason to think so. Nope. The ark represented His spirit and presence. It was like a link with heaven. So He danced a star around, right to the house of Jesus, and no one else recorded it in other countries??? Think about it. Jesus assuming a man's body did not make Him little. If the Father boogies around sometimes in a UFO, that doesn't make Him little.

I define things by a guess, when it is left unknown, and educated guess. Based on things of a spiritual nature in the rest of the bible. It is known that the spiritual level was nearby, however. No, you can't. A star in the ancient world meant almost any little light in the night sky. Period. Your story therefore has no reality to God, or the bible. The idea of the bible is a book to understand Him. Take that away, and you got nothing. Your position comes in little dribbles, so there isn't enough there to make a picture to understand or not. But you deny that the bible is correct in any meaningful way. Just look at this post, for the quotes from you there. Your unknown belief is up for discussion, in that you are hiding it. That fact alone is suspicious. There are oodles and oodles of sites that outline this Christian belief. All I have to do is show it is an accepted position, not that it has to be the only position."Careful study of the OT also reveals that Jesus Christ made several bodily appearances, or Christophanies, long before he entered Mary’s womb. One such appearance was in Gen. 18 when Jesus, along with two of his angels, visited Abraham. In v. 3 of that chapter Abraham greets one of the men as “My Lord” (”Adonai” in Hebrew) which is a phrase in scripture used only to refer to God (see Ps. 110:1). Starting in Gen. 18:13, this man is called “the LORD.” Whenever the word LORD appears in scripture with all caps, this identifies God’s name Jehovah or Yahweh. As this chapter ends, two of the men begin a journey to Sodom while Jesus remains behind to tell Abraham that Sodom will be destroyed. Upon learning of Sodom’s upcoming destruction, Abraham intercedes on their behalf to Jesus. In the next chapter the two angels who were with Jesus arrive at Sodom to rescue Lot and his family.Jesus also made an appearance to Jacob in Gen. 32:24-30 where he wrestled with Jacob all night. Several theologians have said that Jacob was merely having a psychological battle, not a physical one, because of his feeling guilty for taking Esau’s birthright. However, I have never heard of someone having a psychological battle where their hip gets knocked out of joint as Jacob’s did-have you? Since Jacob held his own against Jesus in the wrestling match, he was granted a blessing. His name was changed to Israel, which is proof that this man had to be Jesus. Israel means “he who prevails with God” or “he will rule as God (rules).” Jacob had literally prevailed with God by wrestling with him in the person of Jesus. This was a reflection of Jacob’s spiritual growth in that he could persevere and overcome by faith without cheating as he had done in the past. Jacob realized who he wrestled with in Gen. 32:30 by naming the place Peniel, meaning “the face of God,” knowing he had seen him face to face and lived.Jesus appeared to Joshua also in Josh. 5:13-15. Joshua was near Jericho when he saw a man with a sword drawn. Immediately Joshua wanted to know if he was friend or foe and he was told by the man that he was captain of the Lord’s host. Upon hearing this, Joshua fell on his face and worshipped him. This man did not stop Joshua from worshipping him as any other servant of the Lord would do (see Acts 10:26; 14:15; Rev. 19:10; 22:9 where servants of God stopped other men from worshipping them). Joshua asked Jesus what his message was and Jesus responded by telling Joshua to take off his shoes because he was on holy ground, which is the same thing he told Moses in Exodus when he appeared to him in a burning bush."Jesus Christ’s appearances in the Old Testament–pt. 1 – Sun & ShieldThe belief Jesus was alive and well, and visiting us in the old testament is basic bread and butter Christian fare. That this universe we know will pass away is well known. That this is a temporary world is almost universally known to believers. What I say is unknown is the precise details of the spiritual kingdom, to PO men. They work fine where they apply, not in the PO fishbowl, we were given fishbowl physics laws that rule here. It is a popular culture example of a claim that someone could go to infinity and beyond, when they can't get out of the box themselves! You can use them in the fishbowl. Be thankful. Just don't think too highly of your abilities, and thoughts. God's thoughts are way way higher. "Nuclear fission differs from other forms of radioactive decay in that it can be harnessed and controlled via a chain reaction: free neutrons released by each fission event can trigger yet more events, which in turn release more neutrons and cause more fissions. Chemical isotopes that can sustain a fission chain reaction are called nuclear fuels, and are said to be fissile. The most common nuclear fuels are 235U (the isotope of uranium with an atomic mass of 235 and of use in nuclear reactors, 238) and 239Pu (the isotope of plutonium with an atomic mass of 239). These fuels break apart into a range of chemical elements with atomic masses near 100 (fission products). Most nuclear fuels undergo spontaneous fission only very slowly,"Nuclear fission - WikipediaSo, it seems it is more or less speeding up the PO processes of decay. In a universe where there is no decay process as we know, that isn't something that could be sped up, is it??But the point you missed was that, just because there is something available, no need to use it in a way that is bad. Are you saying, now, then, that this is your belief???He made many levels of hell, and heaven. Nothing to do with not being powerful, He is accommodating. Neither is Jesus being alive and well and active make Him more than one Jesus. Neither is there a thing wrong with Ezekiel's mobile throne sighting. Test that, with your little shiny new tester. Well, no, they could not have, because God just wasn't about to dream of letting that happen any more than we can play guitar on the bands of Orion. That was pre split, remember!!??? Focus. What does how we make bricks now with got to do remotely with that!!??? They had plenty of slimestone. Oh, I got how you admitted yo had poor choice, and also made that stated belief up. Relax. Not at all, you can't pull one over on me. I was onto you soon as you made the silly claims. I knew you were not telling the truth, if it makes you feel any better. No problem. From the quality of your arguments, or lack therof, that is a compliment. Now, if you were brave enough to put your beliefs on the table, as I have, I might pay them a little return compliment there. But you can stay in your safe place, that's OK. Readers will understand what you are doing. Better to stay mellow yellow, I suppose. OK, so I think we all are starting to get it here. You insist obsessively in hiding your 'true' beliefs. You presented some beliefs, but these were false, by your own admission. You haven't been able to grasp that you fooled no one, but are so convinced you had, you think others have a 'comprehension problem'. OK.Now, on the topic, I think your 'stated' position' is that you insist the Christmas star was a distant sun, and that the bible, therefore, is hopelessly wrong. You offer no support for why, but have made the claim. Wow. Whoopee do. OK, so you had no idea before this thread Jesus was alive and well before He came down as a human baby. OK. I guess this is a clue that you are not familiar with Christian basics. We are narrowing your secret beliefs down a little. Well, what I took as a clue there, was that God in that scene, and His son were up in the clouds." The Ancient of days
God Almighty; and this is the only place in the sacred writings where God the Father is represented in a human form."Daniel 7 - Clarke's Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.orgThis is God, up in the clouds, no??? In a body. The son is also there. Now, was the Father's wheels there???? (UFO of Ezekiel) Let's see.
Oh my goodness, to clinch it, there is the THRONE, plain as day!!!9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.Surprise surprise. You really thought I made this stuff up????????Edited by simple, : No reason given.

The author was God, and His spirit, so to perceive the intentions the spirit is required. Get over it. The wheels are real. The throne is real. The guiding the wise men was real. The star prophesy was real. The fact that you want to neuter the spiritual from the bible only neuters you potential to actually understand it. That is plainly brought out in the bible, I even posted some verses on it. The messiah was promised from the beginning, long before there were kings in Israel, or an Israel. You interpret the sceptre as meaning kings, that is your problem, and leaves you with broken prophesy, a useless bible, and a God missing in action. Complete nonsense and doctrine. Man needed a savior since the fall. Israel was one step on the way there, and it's silly little pip squeak kings, most of whom seemed to be desperately wicked, and idolaters anyhow, had diddley much to do with it. If you miss God's office, you miss the whole thing. No, it is a word that symbolizes God's authority, and He is the only one in the bible that ever had a sceptre. His sceptre did remain till after Shiloh came. The Father stuck around till Jesus took over the job. You think it only took them a day to get to the palace now?? Or are you suggesting they were ecstatic every night for a year and some months, or whatever it took to get there???Can you demonstrate the normal path of a star leading a pizza delivery boy to your house?? Call up, and instead of an address just say 'follow that star'. Yeah right. Get a grip. Of course they slow motion appear to move across the sky. Now, order that pizza, and show us the demo. Remember, I am even allowing you to tell then the city you are in. Work on that. If it was my best friend, and, in Mary's case, almost like a husband, I think people would recognize them. Yes. That is nonsense. Many countries knew of Israel. But it doesn't say countries sent them. Why make stuff up, and read things into it that aren't there???? Then you accuse others of a comprehension problem, because they never tuned in to your little fantasy trip?? Easy, the US, Britain, Jordan, Argentina, Canada, and etc. Why?? Just like Iranians! They are all over. Traveling is a wonderful thing. Readers, just listen to this guy weird out. Without the spiritual, as the bible says, you just can't get it. Got it?? Sure one could. Just sew up the veil, and pretend it is business as usual! The show must go on. After all, not like anyone was going in there to check!!!! That is why, in my opinion, God sent the Romans to stop that show, and will send the Antichrist to stop the sacrifices when they shortly start up again!!!!It is simply not going to be allowed. My ppoint, exactly, if it was a star in the sense of a distant sun, others would have seen it. Thanks for that. Not if you think about it. Not only is He all in all, and the Great Spirit that is in everything, and set the stars in the heavens, He also does it from a starship, at least sometimes. And He is soon coming right here forever to land and live, and base His trips from!! Evermore.

Complete nonsense, of course. In the extreme. He gave us the choice to select Him. And His spirit, as a consequence. He made it crystal clear, and simple, in the bible that we could understand, but we NEED his spirit, and help.
It is not God lying, by any natural only minded stretch of the imagination, when He says we need, repeat need, repeat need, repeat need, repeat need, emphasis on need, repeat need to have His spirit, to comprehend. That is something you need to get a handle on pronto. Before you can, repeat can proceed any further. That is how it is. Need I repeat myself here???? So, the spiritual importance of it, means what??? Does it mean that it was written by a spirit, and needs a spirit to unlock it's mysteries?? Or do you use 'spiritual' as some mentally conjured, 'in the head only', bible is a pack of nonsense' way?? Do tell. That is the anti thesis of what I ever suggested. The murmuring Jews in the desert were lacking plenty, obviously. Otherwise some of them would have made it to the promised land! Focus. If they had not belly ached about the manna, and worshiped golden calves, while the cat, Moses, was away, and etc... maybe you could say they had 'arrived' spiritually. No. They were a mess. That is as shallow a take on the word of Gos as could be imagined. Poetry, and 'philosophical arguments', that claim a messiah was coming, and came, and that the book was inspired of God, etc would be the most heinous, diabolical hoax ever foisted on mankind. Not His office over them. He did hide His face a few times, and allow them to reap the hell they sowed, but He still had His plan, messiah, and office very very, repeat very much intact. This is evidenced by the sacrifice of His son. God had to let Jesus taste what our death was like, the separation for a small moment, from the Father. Perhaps the Father almost hoped that Jesus , His son, would raise His little pinky, call in the angel air strike, and end man's rule?? Instead, He had to forsake Jesus, apparently, for a moment. All for you. And you come up with this sort of tripe??? On the contrary, it puts man in his place. Now, fill us in, was that a king of ISRAEL, that held that sceptre???? You ought to hang your head in shame. Worldly kings have offices as well. So???? The office over Judah was...class...Who???? I never said blessing, THAT depends on OBEDIENCE!!! I said office, rule. Get serious. In the world of men, of course!!! Jesus IS the way, the truth, and the light, NO man cometh unto the Father, but by Him. Jesus is the only Christmas star around you can follow now. You make it sound like they were a bunch of silly morons, that jumped up and down, and got a mench in the bible itself, every time a new evening came round. Ridiculous. OOHH. I see. So, we can tweak the test, and demo, here, to make it real easy for you. Call up some astrology club, and ask them to deliver a telescope to your door. Tell them to follow a star!!! You really must be kidding. That is patently absurd. Get a grip, man. I was referring to how we Christians are all married to Jesus. I won't get into the good stuff on a non Christian public forum!! So, why pretend that countries sent folks there????? Try and focus. Woulda shoulda coulda. Maybe, smaybe, baby. This is your pretend case support???? God's wheels are bible basics. Claiming that all the wise men were living in Iran, regardless of where they were born is dreamland. If these Magi never traveled, why were they in Jerusalem??? Are you suggesting that ALL who used the silk road, or ships always came back to their countries every time?? If not, then, assuming the Magi are as you think, how is it they were hogtied to Iran?? Why not have one in China, or India?? They see a star, bing and a bang and a boom, they prepare to go somewhere more exciting. So?? Other Gods like the messiah??? Like the Ancient of Days?? Your violent fantasies are noted. You seriously suggest here, that the legions sent to punish the rebellious Jews, were all from Israel?? Absurd. We shall see. I can tell you one thing, Jesus ain't building no temple in old Jerusalem. All you are saying, is that many Jews will embrace the AntiChrist as the messiah!!!! This is news???? You seem to claim here that the Hindus recorded the Christmas star. Prove it. As for why Luke got the scoop, and was in the loop, God gives us all some light. If we place 4 people together, we will see a particular light in each person's testimony. Not all men have to have access to every point. How drool. Never heard of the silly guy. If he wants my notice, he can say it himself, and see how far he gets.

Well, never heard of this ray, and your prophet gibberish is insanity. The bible basics of God's wheels, and such, are just something that seem to rub your unbelieving natural take on things the wrong way. Tough. Let me assure you, your threats of stoning me are met with humor. If you met me, you would call me sir. I kid you not. OK, so you are welcome to your opinion. I, as anyone here that can read would likely notice, make out God and the bible to be true, unlike you. No. No idea what you are prattling on about. You are welcome to your opinion. Heaven is full of sinners. So?? Stop blathering. If the bible is the pack of fairy tales you make it out to be, any real man ought to have the kahonies to toss the garbage out. God is either God, or He isn't. Stand up, man. Prove it. He simply said that He would not do it with water again. The angels at the ready, watching day and night for Jesus to give the signal, and raise that baby finger were not going to come down with water pistols. Get serious. And come down to end this world they would have. Any time, pal. I mean that. Yes. The followed a UFO, and Herod had no clue. So?? False. like the king that held the sceptre you posted, and never admitted was not from Israel. The sceptre was the office of God, and that included kings. But was not limited to them, therefore YOUR claims that God's word is false are exposed as a fraud. You prance around here and many seem to think you are the resident bible expert. Let's hope they see through that lie now. You are a natural only minded rip off. Not in any way at all is that true. I believe the bible, you cast it to the ground, and stomp on it as a filthy lie. I am onto you. Fine. I am going to be lenient on you, and go the extra mile here for you. I will make it real easy. Just call your newspaper astrologer, and ask him or her to find your house, just give them your birth date. Face the facts, man, that can not guide them to your city, or town, and very house. Say uncle. Stop fantasizing. The bible doesn't say countries sent the wise men. That is bull. Prove that they were Iranian, and came from there. You are pathetically lacking in the slightest proof, or bible for your la la dreams. If I see something, I use vision. So??? Zeke saw the wheels and throne of God. Now, if you want to claim that was a vision of another time, well, I can allow that. Maybe he saw the Christmas star long before it came??? He has His gals, I have mine. We are not queer, if that is your insinuation. Neither was Mary. Oh, so the temple is in New Jerusalem???Re 21:22 - And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.Now, the word temple is also used in Revelations, about heaven, but, according to this commentary, not the temple you refer to."and serve him day and night in his temple;
not in any material temple, but in the new Jerusalem, the general assembly and church of the firstborn, the temple of the living God; for in this state there will be no material temple, or place of worship, but God and the Lamb will be the temple thereof, (Revelation 21:22) ;"Revelation 7 - Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org Any English translation of this claim??? Jews await the second coming now, according to you???? Prove it. Show us how a star guides men to a house??? Why talk for nothing, support your claims.Edited by simple, : No reason given.

Interpreting the bible in a believing spirit may seem like something strange to you. Too bad. What I mean there, is, it is easy for you to talk about executing me on the net. In real life, you would not be so brave. Get it?? We need to get beyond a surface reading level. That will keep in in a PO natural only shallow pool. Besides, a star literally meant a little light in the night sky, basically. You have offered nothing to guide us to a house by such a star, or by astrology, or any other way at all. You do violence to the literal text, then ask others to take your contortions as some sort of reality. Pathetic. You wasted your time, get a refund. You haven't got a clue on the heart and soul spiritual basics, and you can't proceed an inch aithout that. Seems all you learned to do is doubt it. Your natural only version is the dead zone, the boring zone, as well. Meanwhile, you have repeatedly called for a ritualistic execution of your opponent here, That is real grown up, ya think??? You don't believe in capitol letters, but want capitol punishment for those that whup your touche in a debate. Sad. This means what??? Of course God led the rebellious murmuring Hebrews through the desert. They never got to the promised land, if you read the thing, however, because of it. This is news??? That doesn't mean, of course, that they never made it to heaven. They simply were made examples of, of what not to do. What not to be like. The old testament is like that, you know, that is what is is largely about. Sorry you missed that. If we don't have divine help, we ain't going anywhere understanding the bible. That is basic Christian fare. The bible is divine knowledge. To get it, we need His help. The whole thing is rather divine. Sorry you missed that, natural minded man. But, I suppose it might be a good example for others if they read this stuff. No, that is why I crossed the road, I followed a sense or reason. I suppose a star couldn't even guide you across a road, forget to a house in another city. Smaller lights, like crosswalk signals, can help one get across the road, however. Just like a smaller light than a distant sun, could fly over our heads, and guide us places. Sounds like you have too much pie in the sky to cross the road. There are a lot of roads to cross, to understand the bible. Start soon. The mobile throne is bible. I never made it up. The fact a sun could not fulfill the Christmas star story is not a fairy tale. It is obvious. Others would see a distant sun, and it ain't guiding no one to another city, and house. There you have it kids, from the horse's mouth. Years and years of learing, and he sees no reality to the bible. A bunch of non historical, poetry, and la di da fables. Don't let it happen to you. Run for your lives. Understanding scripture is not about proof, any more than science is. It is about comparing scripture with scripture, in balance, with the help of His spirit. The evidence of The Almighty flying is in Ezekiel. The evidence of Him in a body is in Daniel. I gace the links. The evidence of the wonders of the light in the sky over Shiloh, in the bible, demonstrate it was more than natural light. You need to clue in to that. You have really not made any cohesive case for a contrary position. I never saw one anywhere where else either. That is one reason that I say that the Starship Sceptre is the best fir, by far. Both with historical evidences, or lack thereof, and with the bible, six ways from Sunday. Of course I have. They were in tune with the vibes of the heavens, and knowledge of other things, that allowed them to see the entry of the Starship as an ensign that it was. They headed for where it was headed.
They then asked around, since it seems to many that the star disappeared from view for a while. No one knew squat, and the king was drooling all over them, trying to get them to spy for him, on the new king.As they left the palace, the Sceptre came down low enough to get their attention, and moved before them, guiding them to the house where the royal family was actually now at. This threw the old fox Herod, off the scent, yet, the news conference heralding Jesus to the bigwigs of Israel was still held. Knowing that the mad demonic king was out to kill His son, the Father led the rich men, laden with treasures, to the pad of His son. They had their getaway money, and the angel came by night, and said get going right that night. God was way ahead of the pack of child killers, and wackos. Of course. The sceptre did not depart till after Shiloh came. You are educated enough to use question marks. OK. I have no idea what it means. Since the name of God was a mystery, maybe something to do with that??? But I know His name, see, I am way more educated than that. It's Jesus. No!! I'll give you my take on that bit. There are a few fulfillments there, likely. My opinion is that the greatest one refers to the ressurection of the dead, when we will have our physical bodies raised. In this case, an example of a certain area in Israel, likely, is used. Other examples could be where there is not even any bones left, like a death at sea, or such.
The other application, or parable, there, is fairly apparent, no?? Most likely, it would be the only one you have seen. Can you prove that all of them were persian astrologers?? That is your claim. Next, can you show they never travelled to other countries, except for this one time??? Otherwise, how would you know which country they were in when they started their trip this time??? Answer these 2 questions. The thread is almost done. That verse refers to New Jerusalem, coming down from above to earth. Not some Jewish temple. You kidding??? Reaalllly, now?? The Jewish believers expect that Israel will be invaded by the Antichrist? That he will take AWAY the daily sacrifice?? That he will rule in Jerusalem, in the holy place?? That is news to me.