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Author Topic:   Vick Finds Jesus
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.5


Message 4 of 50 (418546)
08-28-2007 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Hyroglyphx
08-28-2007 7:53 PM


Re: What in the world was that boy thinking?
n_j writes:
What in the world was that boy thinking?
Boy?
Maybe right now he's thinking they sure don't treat uppity black quarterbacks the same way they do poor white crackers when they get caught runnin' dogfights.
Boy?!
Of course, he didn't cause any human deaths, unlike that Bush boy. That Bush boy even laughs at death row conversions. Conversions don't count after you get caught--unless you're an evangelical preacher.
Complicated, huh?
Boy?!

Real things always push back.
-William James
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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-28-2007 7:53 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-28-2007 11:00 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.5


Message 37 of 50 (418846)
08-30-2007 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Hyroglyphx
08-28-2007 11:00 PM


Re: What in the world was that boy thinking?
n_j writes:
Boy?
What's wrong with saying that??? If it was a female and I said, what in the world was that girl thinking, would you be as incredulous?
Only slightly less incredulous--both when applied to adults are belittling reflections of bigoted thought. The customary term for an adult male is man; the customary term for an adult woman is woman. You didn't say guy, or dude or fellow, after all.
I see two options: one, you truly are so racially insensitive and historically ignorant that calling an adult black male boy was a naive act; two, you are not that ignorant, and while it was not a conscious act of bigotry, as you say, it did reflect an unthinking bias.
I've scrolled back through a lot of your posts. I couldn't find any examples of you calling an adult white man, boy. You see?
Omni, reserve the soapbox for what we're actually dealing with.
Referring to "that Bush boy" was a relevant example. I thought you might find the notion of calling the President boy as jarring as African Americans find obnoxious the same term applied to adult men.
Can I assume that you are defending Vick or are you merely questioning the integrity of the prosecution?
No, I am not defending Vick. His behavior was despicable.
But dogfighting has been an underground sport in the south for a long, long time. I doubt very much that we could find an example of a white man being so raked over the coals on the same charges.
While African Americans dominate many professional sports, the position of quarterback (like manager in baseball and, until recently, coach in basketball) is still reserved almost entirely for white athletes.
I think the overwhelming reaction from the public and the prosecution alike stems from a sense of outrage at this behavior by a black man who has been so favored. That notion itself is racist: it's the "I'm don't want to sound like a racist, but he should be more careful about fulfilling his people's sterotypes" type of bigotry writ societally large.
His prosecution and public condemnation should have proceeded like those of any other person convicted of the same crime. That's not what I see.

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-28-2007 11:00 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-30-2007 6:23 PM Omnivorous has replied
 Message 49 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-30-2007 10:26 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.5


Message 39 of 50 (418853)
08-30-2007 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Minnemooseus
08-30-2007 6:23 PM


Re: Not a racist thing (and drop the "boy" discussion)
I think that there would have been such a reaction to such behavior by any well known public figure, regardless of race etc.
I think you are wrong.
The way to disprove that would be to find a prominent white man who committed such a crime without getting such a reaction.
The way to prove different treatment for blacks v. whites accused of similar crimes is to look at the historical record: it is stark and clear. The notion that only finding an exact parallel in terms of prominence and wealth--but white--would disprove your notion that America suddenly became race blind is absurd. Indeed, the presence of prominence and wealth is statistically associated with better outcomes for the accused.
And let's drop the whole "boy" part of the discussion. Nemesis_juggernaut has explained and apologized for the phrase upthread. There is nothing else he can say on the matter.
n_j used classic racist speech; I called him on it; he replied, and I responded. I'm glad to hear he apologized, but that wasn't in any reply to me--I responded to what he had to say directly to my objection. You have a problem with that?
Do you mean to instruct us to no longer address the racial aspect of this controversy? Why?
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-30-2007 6:23 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 08-30-2007 7:10 PM Omnivorous has replied
 Message 44 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-30-2007 9:08 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.5


Message 41 of 50 (418856)
08-30-2007 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Taz
08-30-2007 7:10 PM


Re: Not a racist thing (and drop the "boy" discussion)
Thank you for the painstaking elaboration, Taz. So you are saying that I have to read every intervening thread before I reply to a response?
No thanks.
That's not why we have subthread reply linkage, eh?
But I know Moose will appreciate your concern.

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 08-30-2007 7:10 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Adminnemooseus, posted 08-30-2007 8:01 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.5


Message 43 of 50 (418866)
08-30-2007 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Adminnemooseus
08-30-2007 8:01 PM


Re: Please take this to a better place
May I suggest you close the thread rather than mandate racial hypocrisy?
Sir.

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Adminnemooseus, posted 08-30-2007 8:01 PM Adminnemooseus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Adminnemooseus, posted 08-30-2007 9:41 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.5


Message 45 of 50 (418868)
08-30-2007 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Hyroglyphx
08-30-2007 9:08 PM


Re: Not a racist thing (and drop the "boy" discussion)
I'm glad you agree the discussion should not be stifled, n_j.
I'll reply at length, Moose willing, tomorrow.

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-30-2007 9:08 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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