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Author Topic:   Vick Finds Jesus
Grizz
Member (Idle past 5471 days)
Posts: 318
Joined: 06-08-2007


Message 1 of 50 (418512)
08-28-2007 5:34 PM


In the press conference following his plea hearing, Michael vick has stated his legal woes over the dogfighting charges have led him to Jesus.
Hmmm, are people really that naive? You would think his attorneys would be more a little more subtle when trying to reform his image.
As far as Vick being allowed to play again, I am all for it, on one condition - the first time he loses a game he will be doused with water and electrocuted.

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 2 of 50 (418525)
08-28-2007 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Grizz
08-28-2007 5:34 PM


Grizz writes:
In the press conference following his plea hearing, Michael vick has stated his legal woes over the dogfighting charges have led him to Jesus.
As I have been saying all these years. Most people nowadays seem to have this weird idea that being a christian somehow equates to being a good person. All criminals have to do is say "I've found jesus" or "I'm a christian" and people will automatically assume they're good people.
Frankly, I'm getting tired of all this "well, I'm a christian" bullshit. People actually say this to my face thinking it will make me think they are better people than I am.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 50 (418528)
08-28-2007 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Grizz
08-28-2007 5:34 PM


What in the world was that boy thinking?
In the press conference following his plea hearing, Michael vick has stated his legal woes over the dogfighting charges have led him to Jesus.
I'm all for people changing their ways for the better, but actions speak louder than words. I guess we'll just see what we see about his "conversion." By his fruits we will recognize him.
Hmmm, are people really that naive? You would think his attorneys would be more a little more subtle when trying to reform his image.
Well, the Defense doesn't have a defense because of the enormous amount of evidence indicting their client. The obligatory response is to plea and then play the sympathy card in hopes that it will reduce his sentence.
As far as Vick being allowed to play again, I am all for it, on one condition - the first time he loses a game he will be doused with water and electrocuted.
Its truly mystifying to think a figure as prominent as Vick would be so foolish as to think that something like this would never reach the ear of the public.

"God creates out of nothing. Wonderful you say. Yes, to be sure, but he does what is still more wonderful: he makes saints out of sinners." -Sren Kierkegaard

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Omnivorous, posted 08-28-2007 10:01 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 4 of 50 (418546)
08-28-2007 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Hyroglyphx
08-28-2007 7:53 PM


Re: What in the world was that boy thinking?
n_j writes:
What in the world was that boy thinking?
Boy?
Maybe right now he's thinking they sure don't treat uppity black quarterbacks the same way they do poor white crackers when they get caught runnin' dogfights.
Boy?!
Of course, he didn't cause any human deaths, unlike that Bush boy. That Bush boy even laughs at death row conversions. Conversions don't count after you get caught--unless you're an evangelical preacher.
Complicated, huh?
Boy?!

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-William James
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-28-2007 7:53 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-28-2007 11:00 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 50 (418553)
08-28-2007 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Omnivorous
08-28-2007 10:01 PM


Re: What in the world was that boy thinking?
quote:
What in the world was that boy thinking?
Boy?
What's wrong with saying that??? If it was a female and I said, what in the world was that girl thinking, would you be as incredulous?
Maybe right now he's thinking they sure don't treat uppity black quarterbacks the same way they do poor white crackers when they get caught runnin' dogfights.
What!?!? Are they making an example of him because he's famous? Yes. Is that right to prosecute someone more harshly because they are well-known to serve as a deterrent to others? Yeah. But come on, Omni. You can't really be serious that you think they are giving such publicity only because he's black!
Of course, he didn't cause any human deaths, unlike that Bush boy. That Bush boy even laughs at death row conversions. Conversions don't count after you get caught--unless you're an evangelical preacher.
Omni, reserve the soapbox for what we're actually dealing with. Can I assume that you are defending Vick or are you merely questioning the integrity of the prosecution?
Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : typo

"God creates out of nothing. Wonderful you say. Yes, to be sure, but he does what is still more wonderful: he makes saints out of sinners." -Sren Kierkegaard

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Omnivorous, posted 08-28-2007 10:01 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Shtop, posted 08-29-2007 3:19 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 37 by Omnivorous, posted 08-30-2007 5:49 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 50 (418564)
08-29-2007 12:28 AM


Many Professions Genuine Also
Having been in evangelical Christian churches for 60+ years I've met, known and heard genuine testimonies of many who have turned to God and his son Jesus in times of crisis. Often when folks find where their own sinful ways lead God's Holy Spirit convicts them resulting in genuine and lasting new life/person. I'm talking folks who've been saved for many years. Gangland Mobster Mickey Cohen's wiretap expert, Jim Vaus received Christ at a Billy Braham crusade, confessed to police and became a gospel evangelist type who both my wive and I heard speak before we were married. I believe there was some kind of a crisis that led him to the crusade. Jim Dobson recently interviewed Son of Sam David Berkowitz who's been a long time Christian in prison since receiving Christ Jesus. He was demonic when he went to prison and the guards even feared him. Now he helps other inmates and does helpful work in the prison. He says he has no desire to ever leave prison as he agrees he should do his time. Chuck Colson of Watergate received Christ in a crisis time. I could go on but these are a few starter examples.
I am presently working with a local guy 6'7 tall in his late thirties who grew up in under a drunkard dad, he himself has been an alcohic all his adult life as well as his three brothers. He was recently baptized, going to church regularly, and working full time. He came to me in a crisis time when he was headed for prison for repeated drunk driving et al. They decided to give him a last chance with ankle bracelet parole & doing alcohol anonymous for a spell. This didn't do it in the past for him and wasn't working for him this time either but kept him borderline. His name use to be on the local radio quite often for getting in fights and other trouble. Having worked for me when he was younger, he came to me for spiritual help, remembering that I tried to help him then. I've been mentoring him for the last two years, impressing upon him to read the Bible daily, pray daily, go to an evangelical church once a week, work 5 or 6 days and become nutrition minded which not only helps his craving for alcohol but feeds his brain the nutrients which make it function more efficiently. He's finally been progressing nicely into all of these areas remarkably well. He's had a few ups and downs but has been consistently holding a job and living the Christian life walking the talk. The nutrition program has helped him and has gotten his wife off oxygen dependence for serious illness (I forgot the name of it).
Among crisis coversions are some other athletes as well. Btw, Evel Knievel has recently been on Robert Shuler's Hour of Power from the Crystal Cathedral when in some kind of a crisis time recently got saved, called Robert and wanted to tell his story on the Hour of Power. It was arranged and his testimony was so interesting and inspiring that Shuler scrapped his own message and gave Evel the podium, after which hundreds of people came forward for salvation by receiving Jesus, baptism et al. The event was so significant that Shuler is going to do a repeat of some kind again in the next week or two if I remember correctly. If you want to hear it it's worth your time just to hear the interesting account of his life story, the accidents & all he went through. He makes you laugh & may make you cry.
So what Michael Vick needs now is our prayers, that he too will walk the talk.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.

Replies to this message:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 7 of 50 (418567)
08-29-2007 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
08-29-2007 12:28 AM


Re: Many Professions Genuine Also
Hey Buz, can you do me a favor?
Drop the et al!
Please. Especially since I see you have a tendency to use it incorrectly. Case in point--"etc." should be used in the statement:
repeated drunk driving et al
. Generally, "et al" is used for shortening the list of authors.
For ex: Abe, Jack, and Lisa are the authors. Lisa is the main author.
ex: Lisa, et al.
Also, it's generally only used in citations.
So, can you please stop using et al incorrectly, inappropriately, or just not use it at all?
p.s. "et al" means "and others"

This message is a reply to:
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Shtop
Junior Member (Idle past 2325 days)
Posts: 30
Joined: 07-19-2007


Message 8 of 50 (418579)
08-29-2007 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Hyroglyphx
08-28-2007 11:00 PM


Re: What in the world was that boy thinking?
quote:
Boy?
What's wrong with saying that??? If it was a female and I said, what in the world was that girl thinking, would you be as incredulous?

Of course not NJ, we all know what you meant by "Boy".
Anyway, on topic: Agreed. Reminds me of when I first told my mum I was an atheist: She said "When you're lying on your death bed, you'll change your mind".
These sudden conversions when people are in trouble... Even us dumb folks can see right through it, do they really believe God can't?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-28-2007 11:00 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 50 (418591)
08-29-2007 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
08-29-2007 12:28 AM


Re: Many Professions Genuine Also
Jim Dobson recently interviewed Son of Sam David Berkowitz who's been a long time Christian in prison since receiving Christ Jesus.
To the surprise of many, Berkowitz appears truly genuine in his conversion.
What Michael Vick needs now is our prayers, that he will walk the talk
Yes, and I have now done just that.
I guess what irks people is that they conveniently use this as a scapegoat. And I understand where they are coming from, especially in light of the Parable of the Sower. But I suppose that you're right that we should not sit here and judge the man only to come to faulty conclusions about his alleged conversion.
Afterall, some people in a bad spot really do end up coming to Jesus without falling by the wayside after the tragedy subsides.

"God creates out of nothing. Wonderful you say. Yes, to be sure, but he does what is still more wonderful: he makes saints out of sinners." -Sren Kierkegaard

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 50 (418593)
08-29-2007 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Shtop
08-29-2007 3:19 AM


Re: What in the world was that boy thinking?
Of course not NJ, we all know what you meant by "Boy".
Apparently not if this big of deal is being made of it. I want to know what clandestine meaning you think exists.
Reminds me of when I first told my mum I was an atheist: She said "When you're lying on your death bed, you'll change your mind".
But there really are death bed conversions. Its a strange thing; nobody runs to Nietzsche on their deathbed. They run to Jesus. Now, does that mean everyone is sincere? Absolutely not. Does it mean everyone who says it is being honest. No. But there are some.

"God creates out of nothing. Wonderful you say. Yes, to be sure, but he does what is still more wonderful: he makes saints out of sinners." -Sren Kierkegaard

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 08-29-2007 11:26 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 11 of 50 (418613)
08-29-2007 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Hyroglyphx
08-29-2007 7:44 AM


Re: Many Professions Genuine Also
To the surprise of many, Berkowitz appears truly genuine in his conversion.
that's nice. he didn't kill people because he wasn't saved. he killed people because he's a sociopath. finding jesus doesn't change that.
But I suppose that you're right that we should not sit here and judge the man only to come to faulty conclusions about his alleged conversion.
i'm sure paris hilton really found god, too.
whackos.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-29-2007 7:44 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 50 (418614)
08-29-2007 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Taz
08-28-2007 7:39 PM


Most people nowadays seem to have this weird idea that being a christian somehow equates to being a good person. All criminals have to do is say "I've found jesus" or "I'm a christian" and people will automatically assume they're good people.
Come on, now. That's not all they have to do and people don't automatically assume that. That's just disingenuous, but I guess its a matter of opinion.
Frankly, I'm getting tired of all this "well, I'm a christian" bullshit. People actually say this to my face thinking it will make me think they are better people than I am.
But I do know what you talkin' 'bout, Willis.
I was traveling in a new city looking for a drink. I came across a random local and asked: "Hey, where's the nearest liquor store?"
His response:
"Pfft, I'm a Christian."
and I was all:
*shrugs "Cool, me too... so where's it at?"
and then he got offended.
I was pretty pissed. How dare he Pfft at me and look down on me as an inferior christian just because I drank and he didn't.
And he didn't even give me the directions!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Taz, posted 08-28-2007 7:39 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 13 of 50 (418625)
08-29-2007 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Hyroglyphx
08-29-2007 7:49 AM


Re: What in the world was that boy thinking?
I want to know what clandestine meaning you think exists.
WTF is wrong here? You're old enough to have lived through the civil rights era, aren't you?
Surely you can't be ignorant of the fact that "boy" was a racist diminutive used in reference to black men of any age.
Particularly by police. Nothing clandestine about it. Then again I guess people have been bending over backwards to forget America's racist past (and present):
quote:
What's indisputable is that our society would rather not remember a lot of its racial past. Who wants to keep reviving the memory of lynchings that gives the noose story its poignancy? Who wants to revisit the way white people degraded black men and women by refusing to call them "mister" or "miss," using "boy" and "girl" instead? Wouldn't it be better if we all just forgot the genocide of the so-called Indian Wars that employed the Buffalo Soldiers?
Obviously, the past has modern resonance, because the stories keep coming. Racism lives. America hasn't forgotten.
Page not found - Poynter
When you use "boy" to refer to a black man, that's a legacy of racism. Did you mean to be racist? Honestly, I have no idea. But for God's sake, NJ, learn to think about what you're saying before you mouth off, ok?
But there really are death bed conversions.
Duh. Religion thrives on exploiting people's fears of death and grief for lost loved ones. It doesn't say much for your side when the only people you can seem to convince are the ones who, by definition, aren't thinking clearly.
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-29-2007 7:49 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 14 of 50 (418626)
08-29-2007 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by New Cat's Eye
08-29-2007 10:12 AM


Catholist writes:
Come on, now. That's not all they have to do and people don't automatically assume that.
Just sit back and watch.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-29-2007 10:12 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 15 of 50 (418639)
08-29-2007 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Taz
08-28-2007 7:39 PM


As I have been saying all these years. Most people nowadays seem to have this weird idea that being a christian somehow equates to being a good person. All criminals have to do is say "I've found jesus" or "I'm a christian" and people will automatically assume they're good people.
Frankly, I'm getting tired of all this "well, I'm a christian" bullshit. People actually say this to my face thinking it will make me think they are better people than I am.
In all the years I wasn't a Christian, I never felt like I was going to hell. Which led me to an epiphany a few days ago. All Christians who are "saved" need to be, because they can't make it on their own.
I am totally in agreement with you on this thought taz. Saying your Christian doesn't mean anything.
But there are few people who's lives are genuinely changed when switching to religion. Sometimes forever, but not always.
I don't believe Vick for a second, it just seemed to convenient and not genuine.

This message is a reply to:
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