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Author | Topic: The boasts of atheists (Atheist self-deception) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
1. Premise. If there is not a God the only kind of morality and happiness anyone can have is subjective, practical.
2. As stated, this doesn't not necessarily mean that things are any different if there IS a God. 3. The way an atheist "should never speak" is about happiness and morality in any terms OTHER than practical and subjective. 4. What this further means (I guess. Robin can correct me) is that honesty requires a more sober assessment of happiness and morality in the absence of a God /absence of absolute standards than Robin thinks is expressed in what he calls "boasting" tones. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
I love life with robust enthusiasm, be it in appreciation for the sunshine after a week of cloudy skies, or in the intellectual pleasure of vigorous disagreement here at EvC. It is all part of the wonder of living, Ian. I mean, really. This is supposed to show how wonderful this person is and how this person doesn't need religion. This will not do. One does not make statements like that if one is just a little bit honest.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
What this further means (I guess. Robin can correct me) is that honesty requires a more sober assessment of happiness and morality in the absence of a God /absence of absolute standards than Robin thinks is expressed in what he calls "boasting" tones. Well, yes, though admittedly I object to boasting in and of itself. I WOULD THINK ANYONE WOULD! I was raised not to boast. Has that gone out of style?
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Why should we say these things, just because you say so? Why waste away the years depressing yourself about your brief existence, why waste your life away kissing the ass of an imaginary Supreme Being? There is nothing wrong with an atheist being happy and moral, we just don't worry about getting the reward at the end of time. So we grow old and die, shit happens, but at least we have lived.Brian. How about being honest for a change? How about that? "Your friends, if they can, may bury you with some distinction, and set up a monument, to let posterity see that your dust lies under such a stone; and when that is done, all is done. Your place is filled up by another, the world is just in the same state it was, you are blotted out of its sight, and as much forgotten by the world as if you had never belonged to it."--William Law
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lfen Member (Idle past 4707 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
I was raised not to boast. Has that gone out of style? Well, Robin, it depends on community culture. I knew someone who was raised in a rural area where competant men showed their strength by silence. He was in the service and the New York guys all bragged about what they could do whether they could or not. His officer was from the East Coast and was surprised to discover that he was quite competant. These are culturaly differences. Why haven't you gotten a clue by now?I'll also mention that sometimes I find whining more annoying than boasting, but that is just my personal response. lfen
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lfen Member (Idle past 4707 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
How about being honest for a change? How about that? It still surprises me that the Buddha chose to explicitly teach that life is unsatisfactory (dukha) as if anyone needed that pointed out to them. Yet he made that his first noble truth so it must have seemed to him that people needed that pointed out to them:
"Now this, monks, is the noble truth of suffering: Birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering. Four Noble Truths - Wikipedia William James in his Varieties of Religious Experience points out that people differ widely in temperment. Take Teddy Roosevelt as one example and Winston Churchill as another. Roosevelt was at times almost manic whereas Churchill struggled with depression. Neurotransmitters have profound impact on moods and in part at least are influeced by external factors like genetics, and developement. You lived and taught as long as you have without noticing that people differ in many ways? Why are you expecting everyone to feel and think like you do? I mean I want people to accept my viewpoint and I'm amazed that fundies can delude themselves as easily as they do, but at least I expect people to do all kinds of crazy things. lfen
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lfen Member (Idle past 4707 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
I would never speak of my nihilistic views to my peers. I could be fired for that. What? No academic freedom? What kind of school do you teach at? I'm not asking where but just ... well, I've had professors with different belief systems. No body said anything about firing them. They would have had to plagiarize, fake data, or do something immoral like seduce students or give them drugs I suppose, although several were rather notorious for having affairs and or doing drugs with students. That was during the 60's and 70's. Maybe things have changed. lfen
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
Why don't you stop the unfounded accusatiosn of dishonesty ?
If you've got a point then make it. Don't just attack people for saying things you disagree with.
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ReverendDG Member (Idle past 4140 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: |
I curious as to what the quote was a response to, its not really very honest unless we have context don't you think?
I mean, really. This is supposed to show how wonderful this person is and how this person doesn't need religion.
only if the the quote is to the statement that you can only find meaning with belief in god, and the person you quoted says thats not so
This will not do. One does not make statements like that if one is just a little bit honest.
how is it not honest from thier viewpoint? they can enjoy life without giving every little thing meaning? if there is no joy in the mundane whats the point?
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
How about being honest for a change? How about that? What is it in my post that you think is dishonest? Brian.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3487 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:IMO, you're reading more into the statement than is there. In this case, the person is correcting what she perceives to be a misconception. Your words often contradict life light. Not that I am a saint (although semantically speaking, I am). How wrong you are. I love life with robust enthusiasm, be it in appreciation for the sunshine after a week of cloudy skies, or in the intellectual pleasure of vigorous disagreement here at EvC. It is all part of the wonder of living... Because of the nature of this forum, we don't really "know" people. We can't visually see how they behave or conduct their life. We have one very limited view of their persona. Boasting or bragging carries the idea of flaunting or "puffing up". You still haven't explained why you believe these people are "flaunting" their happiness or goodness given the statements they were responding to? One reads like testimony and the other seems to be correcting an misconception. "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
We have this nonsense:
I mean, we do good deeds because we love our fellow humans and we feel for them, we understand and sympathise a lot of the time with their plights. And then there's this bravado:
why waste your life away kissing the ass of an imaginary Supreme Being?
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
Robinrohan writes: It will be, in a hundred years, as if you never existed. You are of no more significance than a roach crawling across the floor. Dude this sounds to me like the cry of someone wanting every one else to feel like him. When I say "I'm happy" I am not boasting but either telling the truth of lieing. Do you mean that you find it hard to believe that any one sans a god could honestly feel happy? If this is the case does it not simply point out that people are different in they're take on what makes them happy? I know someone who is not happy unless all her tea towels are hanging exactly level in her kitchen. This is a non-issue for her boyfriend but she has great difficulty seeing his perspective. I would contend this is an identical sitution.
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iano Member (Idle past 1971 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
No. There is a difference between one's practical life and one's philosophical life. I would never speak of my nihilistic views to my peers. I could be fired for that. One must be very positive on one's job, of course. You mean act as if the self-defined purpose is actually and objective one. "I really believe that what I do makes a difference and that this is one of the core meanings of life I teach here". For if you didn't then you would, in effect, be saying that their jobs (and hence lives) are purposeless in which case you could expect to be separated sheep and goat fashion. Defeatist talk is not welcome
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
You mean act as if the self-defined purpose is actually and objective one. "I really believe that what I do makes a difference and that this is one of the core meanings of life I teach here". For if you didn't then you would, in effect, be saying that their jobs (and hence lives) are purposeless in which case you could expect to be separated sheep and goat fashion. Defeatist talk is not welcome Exactly.
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