Randman's call for nonSecular education...

On what basis is the bible more important than the Vedas? or the Koran? Buddhism has had as much of an effect on history in Asia (if not more) than the Bible on western cultures. You dismissed Greek mythology but it was hardly irrelevant considering early Greek contributions to history. How about ancient Egypt and their belief system? all critical. To not be ignorant of the effects of religion on world history, one would have to study all of this, not just the bible. This is hardly a high school or middle school course. Just learning bible history would still produce culturally and historically ignorant students in any case.And one already sees the consequences of the decline of teaching science (which you deem dispensable) in school. American students are at the bottom in science literacy in the developed world. The US has to import its research talent because of a lack of qualified home grown talent. This website demonstrates daily the perils of poor science education and a complete lack of understandings of methodological naturalism. A population dependent on scientific advancement with no understanding of the pills they pop...

Why after? The vedas, Greek mythology and a lot of other influential religious texts came before the bible and influenced history...some also influenced the bible. That you want the bible to be taught first indicates you have some other agenda having nothing to do with improving students history education.

Well, if it is an interest in history that is based on geographical location and historical timeline, students should begin with the long and complex history of native American religions that predated western influence since it is American history we are supposedly interested in teaching and not giving preferential treatment to the bible

What a laugher..even though your numbers are utter crap, let's just look at your argument...that Xians have murdered millions of people but a few million less than communism, Xianity is therefore moral????
Wow, you have low moral standards. So if Jesus had killed 1 bilion people with lightening and magical farts, and mao killed 1 billion and 1 people with guns, Jesus would be a great guy and mao evil...nice to see where you stand on morality.Oh, and another thing, the various communists, atheists, secularists (that you all lump into one definition proving again that you have the brain capacity of a macaque), were all different groups with different interests, different politics, and different support. The Xians did their murdering all for Xianity...you fundie guys are serial genocidal killers.Also, your complaints about materialism and secularism...what programs that are non-materialistic and not devised to increase the material wealth (of a select few) has the Xian dominated Bush admin proposed? I thought Jesus fed the poor? Bush and the Reps propose cuts to all programs that benefit the poor...and forget about turning the other cheek..unless it is to position yourself better to kill the guy who slapped you I think the idea of teaching religion in school should be dumped and have public schools teach ethics, logic, and the principles of methodological naturalism and let people get their religion at home or in their churches. Then maybe American students would learn to think, write, spell, understand science, and have a grasp of history that at least minimally approaches the levels in other Western countries. Otherwise, we will end up with a country of people as poorly informed as randman....on the average, we already well on our way to such a sad fate.This message has been edited by Mammuthus, 11-15-2005 05:10 AM

Hi holmes,
I should have clarified what I meant by ethics. I had a college course which was more philosophy and ethics where all sorts of really complex dilemas were presented to the students and we had to logically justify our positions or defend a position we disagreed with etc.. It might be guided by someones religious background in some cases but the class managed to debate ethics without bringing up much less favoring any particular religion (especially since the class was really ethnically mixed). It was an interesting excercise. But it is probably not necessary at the junior high/high school level.Thanks for the POTY mention...like Quetzal, and MrHambre who I had regular off forum contact with last year, we are all getting swamped by our regular lives which makes it harder to keep track of things at EvC much less post. But I will hang out/contribute as much as I can..also to keep up with what you are saying since it is always enjoyable.