God's chosen and predestination.

I was having a religious discussion with my friend (a devout Christian that was formerly Baptist and is now more Episcipalean(sp?)...I, myself, am an agnostic for those that don't remember), and for once we found a couple of topics that we can agree on. I found them both very interesting, and it brought up a couple of questions in my mind about the doctrines that are taught in churches and other religious arenas today.For now I won't post the actual verses cited, as I don't remember which ones they were exactly and I don't have them with me.First, we meddled around with the idea of predestination. My friend originally thought this idea to be ludacris, but after reading the Bible more thoroughly, has come to accept it as God's truth. This is based off of the numerous references to God's will, path, and whatever other words that seem to indicate a plan you might come up with. I would assume the main problem with this for most Christians would revolve around the very nature of humanity and our ability to sin and choose whether to follow God/Christ or not. This is understandable, and brought us into our next point.There are numerous references to the "chosen people" in the Bible and even God's plan for offspring in a couple of places. The passages seem to be worded as to indicate that God preselects who will go to heaven and who will not. Possessives like "my people" or "his people" or what-have-you seem to support this. We came up with an idea that perhaps removes some of the loopholes or errancies within the Bible. What if God only concerned himself with his chosen? What if he didn't have to love, care for, etc. those of which are not his chosen? This, in a way, leaves room for both free will and predestination. In addition, it kind of helps answer the questions revolving around "how could God be caring if...?". Maybe the ones that aren't chosen by God are chosen by another god from another religion? Could it be possible to accomodate all religions into one global religion using the same principles in others? What about evolution? This makes for an interesting scenerio: maybe God's chosen were created but others evolved or were created by another deity? I don't give any of this a grain of salt, but it just seems like something interesting that perhaps hasn't been explored all that much.Any and all feedback is appreciated. I don't really believe any of this, but I thought it was pretty interesting. Citing verses and passages is recommended, and I'll try and do the same if asked (it could take a few days, though.)This message has been edited by Glordag2, 08-08-2005 08:18 AMThis message has been edited by Glordag2, 08-08-2005 08:20 AM

I took out the bit about hell. I figured since the chosen bit was somewhat related to predestination I should/could keep that in there. Let me know if you need it narrowed down any more.

Your points on John 3:16 make sense, and we actually discussed that, as well. What is described as "the world" in biblical terms isn't necessarily the world as we know it today. Those who wrote the Bible had a very different mindframe of "the world", and indeed, might have only meant it to be the world which they knew inside of their political or social boundries. Another idea is that loving "the world" doesn't necessarily mean loving each and every thing in it. This would be akin to somoene creating a work of art out of bad clay or paint. They might love their work, but hate the medium with which it was made.Your timeline idea makes sense to a degree, but I certainly don't see any references to such a thing in the Bible. I think passages more likely suggest a predetermined ending of eiter heaven or hell (or something else entirely?) for each person.

Interesting. I suppose that is another viable alternative. I would much rather like to think that other religions could be incorporated into one, however (;. Or perhaps, in being props we have no souls capable of transcending the doors of heaven or hell. This could potentially open the door for reincarnation or some fate other than hell for us. So many strange places these thoughts can go.

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Oh! Was that blasphemous?

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Not if you're correct (; .

LOL! That was great. What is that from?

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Everyone who saw Monty Pythons' "Life Of Brian", I'm afraid He can't take a joke after all.

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I especially liked that one (:

I'm having a bit of trouble with the "all in all" thing. I'm not really sure what that even means. What does it mean to "fill all in all?" The only thing I can figure it to mean is that we are here to preserve his will in its entirety, whatever that might be. In that case, I'm not exactly sure how that supports a timeline. Maybe if I had the verse in its original context or something that would better help me to understand it?