quote:
Originally posted by Andya Primanda:
Following my attacks to Harun Yahya, some Muslims have tried to stop me by implying that evolution always lead to atheism. One even asked me this:
So, if you are a good Muslim, you would not spread evolution, as this is the core of their anti-religious disbelief system.
Can you think of a person who believe in God firmly, yet at the same time spreading a thought that undermine belief in God with the help of disbelievers in God? Do you think it is possible for agnostics and atheists to come to you voluntarily and sincerely to help you understand and, thus, strenghthen your belief in God, or help in spreading the truth about God which is repugnant to them? Do you think they rush toward you because they think you are spreading the truth of evolution which will make people know more about evolution and, thus, believe more in God? If you do not want to answer these question, or if you have no answers to these, you have to ask them these questions. You have to pose these question to those agnostics and atheists who are helping you if you really sincere in your cause. If you do your activities for the sake of Allah, you have to ask these questions to them.
He/she asked it, so I present the questions for you to answer. I also invite the non-atheists to comment.
Since my assistance is apparently the one that got you into trouble, I suppose I better respond. If things would be easier for you in the future, it might be best to caveat your requests for assistance to limit the response to theists, or perhaps find a different forum in which to ask.
In any event, in the above quoted section, your correspondent has placed you in what is essentially an untenable position. He has framed the question as a subspecies of the "Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no?" type of no-win scenario.
However, to answer your correspondent's numerous questions from the above and the link (in no particular order):
1. Do you think it is possible for agnostics and atheists to come to you voluntarily and sincerely to help you understand...
My response: Why not? You were apparently honest in your question. It was a scientific question that seemed to require a scientific answer, one that I was not personally qualified to provide - so I forwarded the question to someone I knew WAS qualified. You have given me no indication during our limited correspondence on this board that would lead me to believe that you weren't sincere, or that you had some motive beyond a simple request for assistance. On the other hand, it might be interesting to hear from your interlocutor why he feels that an atheist is incapable of rendering assistance to someone when asked. If you didn't want help, you shouldn't have asked.
2. ...and, thus, strenghthen your belief in God, or help in spreading the truth about God which is repugnant to them?
My response: Why do you think (or does this writer think) that science has anything to do with belief in God, or in spreading the "truth" about God? Science makes no statement one way or the other concerning the divine. It is neither inherently religious, nor intrinsically atheist. Evolution, in particular, is simply the scientific explanation for how the diversity of life arose. If someone chooses the personal belief that God used evolution as the process, the scientific
facts of evolution provide neither support nor refute the belief. My assumption was that was what you were interested in. If not, you'd better let me (and Ergaster, ultimately) know immediately.
3. Do you think they rush toward you because they think you are spreading the truth of evolution which will make people know more about evolution and, thus, believe more in God?
My response: Again, the "truth" of evolution says nothing about belief or disbelief in God. If you are using a scientific theory to bolster your belief in the supernatural, that's your look-out. I'm sorry to say that if that is the case, you are severely misunderstanding the scientific process and what science
is. You are, of course, free to mix the two - but in that instant it ceases to be science.
So why did I bother? Actually, I'm asking myself that question even as I type. However, let me try and explain my position:
a. You are a scientist (or planning on becoming a scientist). As such, I respect your education and profession. It matters
not one jot what your "religion" is beyond that. I couldn't care less if you worshipped ancestor spirits in trees and sacrificed goats at the full moon - as long as it doesn't effect your scientific research or work. So as a colleague (or potential colleague), when you asked for help I responded. You were, of course, free to accept it or reject it - no one forced you.
b. Whatever your motivations might be, you have consistently opposed pseudoscience, especially religiously-based pseudoscience. I do the same, undoubtedly for different reasons. I was quite happy to provide assistance at your request. There is no more sinister motive than that. Your Moslem pseudoscientific creationists are no better or worse (or even fundamentally different from) the Christian ones. In fact, if your correspondent cared to do a little research, he'd find that Harun Yahya isn't even original - almost every single one of his anti-evolution diatribes have been culled practically verbatim from the Protestant fundamentalist Christian creationists - including Kent Hovind, Duane Gish, Ken Ham, etc. HY even favorably quotes Jonathan Wells - who's an ordained minister of the cult that follows Sun Myung Moon!!! Pseudoscience makes strange bedfellows.
4. On the use of pseudonyms on Internet boards. What a crock. The vast majority of posters - theist or non-theist - use pseudonyms. I no longer post either my real name OR my email address on public fora after receiving several death threats, attempted email "bombs", a hack on my corporate website which cost several thousand dollars to repair, and literally hundreds of religious spam messages (and oddly, invitations to join porn sites and purchase sexual toys over the Internet - go figure how THAT little juxtaposition on mailing lists happened). As to the two particular usernames I use, they follow fairly standard conventions - both are related to my avocation and profession. Quetzal refers to
Pharomachrus mocino. My company was instrumental in halting illegal woodcutting in one cloud forest (and turning it into a nature preserve) that was the rapidly vanishing home of this bird, and at another site was able to document (and film!) nesting behavior and population dynamics that had never been observed in this incredibly rare species. Morpho (from iidb) refers to
Morpho peleides, a signature species from where my company operates - one of the most beautiful butterflies in the world - and the logo of my company.
If your correspondent is that concerned with your association with "evil atheist demon-worshippers" or whatever he thinks the problem is - feel free to invite his participation in this forum.
In the meantime, Andya, you need to decide whether it is or is not in your long-term interest to associate or accept help from the
dar al-harb.
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