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Member (Idle past 3941 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Academic Bill of Rights | |||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
Let me just say this, however.
In the large state universities, a great deal of the teaching is done in Freshman and Sophomore classes by graduate teaching assistants who are inexperienced teachers. These TA's are often very young and often not very knowledgable. The training sessions for TA's are minimal. Some of these young TA's are politically minded, mostly leftist (not all), and some think they are on a mission. It's with these young teachers that abuses can occur. I have a great deal of experience in this environment, since I was a TA myself for a number of years. But the environment I was in was the liberal arts.
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EZscience Member (Idle past 5184 days) Posts: 961 From: A wheatfield in Kansas Joined: |
Sour grapes that the neo-conservative movement has few competent academics within their ranks capable of competing for faculty positions on the basis of scholarly merit alone.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You were right to stress "Every belief." The problem is that the system does not challenge leftist beliefs, only conservative ones. So far you have not shown that.
The prof who asked students to prove that Bush is a war criminal should have, instead, asked students to take a stand for or against that position. Nonsense. The goal was not to give their opinion but to see how well they could support a position. The professor was absolutely right. And once again, you assert he would have marked down a student who disagreed with him but you provide no evidence. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Nonsense. The goal was not to give their opinion but to see how well they could support a position I'm not so sure. The assignment seems a little loaded to me.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I pointed out in another message in a thread far, far away, that the teachers that had the biggest effect on me were the ones that challenged things I believed. Quite often they drove us like cattle until we saw the light and agreed with their position only to then turn the herd around and drive us back the other way.
The result was not the ending postion or opinion, but rather the tools and techniques involved in critically examining any belief. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2332 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
Rate My Professors - Review Teachers and Professors, School Reviews, College Campus Ratings
A site where students rate their profs. Not definitive by any means, but worth a look at some of the profs listed on the Students for Academic Freedom site. I've checked on random teachers from random schools around the country. Like expected, you find good teachers and bad, students that like or dislike a teacher, and any combination there of. You find decidedly opposing view points on the same teacher from different students.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Well, I would never give such an assignment as that. I could see an assignment phrased as follows:
"Argue that the US was wrong to invade Iraq. Then argue that the US was right to Invade Iraq." I personally think that we made a mistake by invading Iraq, but I would never say so to my students. Nor would I give my religious views.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Faith has asked what the left would do if there was conservative bias in the universities. Let me point out what the left has done.
It is the opinion of those on the left that the mainstream media shows a consistent conservative bias. People who disagree with this may take part in the ongoing topics on this or start a new thread; I merely state as a fact that we on the left consider the media to be biased toward conservative opinion. But we on the left (at least most of us) do not call for legislative remedies for precisely the same reason we are against legislative remedies to combat "liberal bias" in academia: the promotion of opinion and analyse cannot be "legislated" to perform fairly -- "fairness" can only come about by the reasoned analyses by those prepared to carefully examine the facts and arguments, not by determining whether this many editors hold this view or whether this person feels that her opinion was disrespected. So what do the "liberals" do? We organize and form groups to examine the content of the mainstream media, to point out consistent errors in fact, and to provided details and opinions that are consistently neglected. These organizations also compile statistical data to demonstrate how consistent the bias is. We form our own media, establishing magazines and journals that go from merely liberal to more radical to the avowedly Marxist. We also create our own broadcasting services. The only legislative remedies we call for do not call for any oversight of content. We call for antitrust laws to prevent too many media outlets from accumulating into too few hands; we want a publicly funded broadcasting service that will be independent of the market place; and we want looser regulations to allow low power radio stations to become more common. Now the conservatives seem to be able to do provide these same remedies in the case of higher education. Faith has already posted one website for watchdog group to combat "liberal bias" in the universities. There are many small, fully accredited Christian colleges located in very conservative communities -- I should know, because I was on a job search last year. Some of these colleges require the applicant to state how they would contribute the Christian mission of the school. I suspect that many of these colleges are not guilty of any liberal bias. Furthermore, relatively recently Jerry Falwell started Liberty University, a fully accredited university, specifically to combat "rampant liberal bias" in the university system. It even has an accredited law school whose avowed mission is to remedy what the Christian right feels are defects in the "liberal" legal system. Furthermore, there is a variety of conservative think tanks and conservative foundations that give money to conservative causes. There is, therefore, opportunity for conservative scholars to engage in research and have their results published. My first point is that I think it is clear that the left has already demonstrated that they would not automatically go marching to the legistlatures if there were conservative bias in the universities. My second point is that there is opportunity in the "market place of ideas" to combat any liberal bias in the universities, and that the conservatives have already shown that they are able to take part in this without using a legal sledge hammer.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Another benefit of the propaganda campaign: to "poison the well" and pre-emptively discredit actual scientific research that goes against the wishes and opinions of the right, from evolution to global warming.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Indeed, the best, most persuasive and compelling arguments I have ever heard in favor of Creationism have come from writers like Dawkins and Gould as they played "devil's advocate". It is this ability to argue from any angle, to examine ALL evidence, is what makes science so powerful.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Translation: "I have no rebuttal, so I'll just call Crash every name I can think of and hope no one notices."
Could you answer the question, please? Do you believe that there's an objective legal standard one might use to determine who is a war criminal and who is not?
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Just to clarify the point of this sub-topic before someone charges in with a response:
The issue is not to debate whether or not the current US president should be considered a war criminal. The issue is whether it is legitimate to require a student to explore and discuss the question.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
"Spectrum of significant scholarly perspectives" ought to cover it. Who decides what's significant? Like creationists, the holocaust deniers can point to a large body of (their own) publications. I'm pleased that Sara correctly recognizes Holocaust denial as a fringe position, but her view really isn't relevant, now is it?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
The issue is whether it is legitimate to require a student to explore and discuss the question. War criminal may be bandied about as a perjorative, but it's also a specific legal term with a specific, objective legal meaning, so its entirely appropriate to assess whether or not George Bush has met that meaning; and if he has, then it's entirely legitimate to ask a student to reiterate that legal reasoning. I don't see the problem; or rather I do, and it proves my point about this bill - it forces professors to grant someone's erroneous opinion the same weight as a factually true statement.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Hello, crashfrog.
That post wasn't aimed at you. I was trying to keep the thread from being high-jacked into a flame war about the Bush or the war in Iraq. As you say, the term war criminal has a definite legal definition, and it is definitely reasonable to decide whether the actions of the Bush administration fit into that definition. The question for the conservatives who brought this point up is: why is it inappropriate to ask that specific question in a classroom if it is germane to the content of the course?
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