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Author Topic:   Will you oppose to scientific conclusions if they'll lead to theology?
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 112 (184922)
02-13-2005 3:52 PM


Will someone remind me why any finite string of digits are necessarily contained somewhere in the decimal expansion of pi? I mean, without looking up the first million digits of pi, can someone prove that somewhere in the decimal representation there is a 5 immediately followed by a 2?

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 02-13-2005 4:32 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 112 (184930)
02-13-2005 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
02-13-2005 4:32 PM


Hi, jar.
Maybe, but I specifically asked for a proof that didn't involve looking up the digits, heh.
There seems to be an assertian on this thread that any finite sequence of numbers must appear in the decimal representation of pi. I have never seen a proof of this. I assume that people are saying this because they think that since pi is irrational it's decimal representation is not periodic, and then that means it must contain, somewhere, any finite sequence of digits you can think of. This is most assuredly false.
On the other hand, maybe there is something about pi itself where this is true; however, I have not seen this written anywhere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 02-13-2005 4:32 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 02-13-2005 4:47 PM Chiroptera has replied
 Message 23 by christian atheist, posted 02-13-2005 4:48 PM Chiroptera has not replied
 Message 24 by JonF, posted 02-13-2005 4:49 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 112 (184935)
02-13-2005 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by jar
02-13-2005 4:47 PM


Are you assuming that the digits in pi form a truly random sequence?
Here is a nice irrational number:
5.05005000500005000005000000500000005000000005...
I can specify lots of finite sequences that never appear in this decimal expansion. but then, this sequence is not very random.
I know that sometimes people use the digits of pi to produce a sequence of random digits, but I don't think that it has been proven that pi behaves as a truly random sequence.
By the way, I see that you are an admin now. Congratulations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 02-13-2005 4:47 PM jar has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 112 (184936)
02-13-2005 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by JonF
02-13-2005 4:49 PM


Hi, Jon.
Yes, if the digits of pi do form a truly random sequence (whatever that means) then jar's explanation would be sound -- given any finite sequence we the probability that we would find that sequence would approach 1 as we look further and further out in the expansion.
On the other hand, there may be other reasons to believe that pi contains all finite sequences even it were not truly random.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by JonF, posted 02-13-2005 4:49 PM JonF has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 02-13-2005 6:02 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 112 (184952)
02-13-2005 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
02-13-2005 6:02 PM


Bleh.
I actually dislike number theory. I wonder if they are going to make me teach it here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 02-13-2005 6:02 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 02-13-2005 6:24 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
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