The predictions of Walt Brown

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Sorry? Then why did you do it? There are times when staying quiet is appropriate.

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Hey, look at my username. It would be out of character if I didn't.But more seriously, Tom in the message above says "The bible in respect to the verse that says compass, another meaning of compass means circuit." You really don't think that Tom came up with that definition out of the blue and totally forgot about the compass used in drawing circles, do you? It seems apparent, at least to me, that Tom looked up the word compass and decided that "tool used to draw a circle" refuted everything he was putting forth. He then used "circuit" to draw even more outrageous hypotheses. I was tired of the tap dancing, so I cut to the chase.[buttkiss]If it makes you feel any better, you do have a handsome smile.[/buttkiss]

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No significant amount of any stuff can be added to the atmosphere in any form at any height without killing everything on Earth other than a few heat-resistant bacteria. The pressure at the Earth's surface would have to be increased by the weight of the stuff divided by the surface area of the Earth, and the temperature would have to be increased by whatever amount is needed to put the stuff in a vapor form.

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I am coming to the conclusion personally, that under present conditions, a canopy is not really a serious liklihood. So, really, if there was a canopy, I would have to look for some things to have been different in a big way. Perhaps gravity, and magnetism and such. But, that will take some work, so I'll have to leave it go for now, thanks for helping in the process of elimination.
OK, now someone was going to have a go at walt's equations I gave the link for, regarding ccoling water so the continents could move over, still waiting. Also, I think it was Walt who mentioned the magnetic field of earth is weaker now than thousands of years ago, and is continuing to get less, is this part right?

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Also, I think it was Walt who mentioned the magnetic field of earth is weaker now than thousands of years ago, and is continuing to get less, is this part right?

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JM: Walt may have said that, but the information was present in the geological literature...and if he did indeed say 'thousands of years ago' then he did not even read the geological literature correctly.CheersJoe Meert

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I am coming to the conclusion personally, that under present conditions, a canopy is not really a serious liklihood.

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That is the conclusion that many creationists have come to as well. Don't worry, you aren't an old earther yet.

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OK, now someone was going to have a go at walt's equations I gave the link for, regarding ccoling water so the continents could move over, still waiting.

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From In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - Conclusion I get: All of these equations show that the compression energy was released upon decompression. No surprise here. These equations do not deal with the starting temperature of the water, which was well above boiling. Walt still needs to get rid of this heat which was not removed upon decompression.

I didn't see any link ... could you re-post it?{added by edit} Oops, never mind ... I see that Loudmouth's re-posted it.This message has been edited by JonF, 01-21-2005 16:38 AM

Exactly. Walt says that "About half the water now in the oceans was once in interconnected chambers about 10 miles below the earth’s surface." (The Hydroplate Theory: Assumptions). That's about 669,000,000 cubic kilometers (160,500,000 cubic miles) of water (see The water cycle: Water storage in oceans). I can't find a good number for the temperature at that depth right now, but at 9.1 kilometers (5.6 miles) it's been measured at about 265°C (509°F) (in the KTB Borehole; see the "Temperature Profiles" figure and caption on page 21). That's only about half as deep as Walt proposes; at his 10 mile depth we could easily be talking in the vicinity of 500°C (932°F). Letting that out to atmospheric pressure would be a boiler explosion of a magnitude we can't even begin to comprehend! Talk about the flesh being flayed from the bones of every living creature!

And just to add to what JonF posted, the temperature of water at depth is not due to compression but due to the heat of the mantle. The compression causes the water to stay in liquid form instead of being converted to steam making the energy more concentrated. This energy, upon decompression, is then spread to the atmosphere. This massive release of steam would drastically increase the barometric pressure and global temperatures. So much so that life as we know it could not exist. It would make for some nice shredded beef burritos, though.

Of course, a few bacteria from Yellowstone would still be around.

OK. Confirmed then, we have some change to work with here.

Sort of an average temperature gradient used in the oil industry is 15 degrees F for every 1000 feet of depth - 10 miles + a 60-degree surface temperature then gets you about 855 degrees. That's well above the critical temperature for water. Gradients vary depending on where you live - 9 to 24 degrees per thousand feet just in Texas - but 15 is a pretty good average figure.Oh - and if Walt had cool water down there, why is there no temperature anomaly now? It's only been a few thousand years, and basalt isn't a real good conductor of heat.This message has been edited by Coragyps, 01-21-2005 18:01 AM

OK. So you and Walt have a difference of opinion about how cool the water down there was, got it.

Nope, you missed it completely. Loudmouth agrees that Walt's caclulations are correct as far as they go, but they are incomplete and don't go as far as is necessary to be accurate, and noted exactly how they are incomplete.How cool does Walt think the water was, and for what reason? I couldn't find ianswers to either question on his site.Note the evidence that I posted ... go ye and do likelwise.This message has been edited by JonF, 01-21-2005 18:15 AM

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I can't find a good number for the temperature at that depth right now, but at 9.1 kilometers (5.6 miles) it's been measured at about 265C (509F) (in the KTB Borehole; see the "Temperature Profiles" figure and caption on page 21). That's only about half as deep as Walt proposes; at his 10 mile depth we could easily be talking in the vicinity of 500C (932F).

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Are we depending on indirect evidence here, or have we gone down 10 miles in a real good cross section of the planet, so we can draw on solid, and wide samples. Why would mr Brown be so wrong looking down? I also wonder how sure we are about the center of the earth. I think they have this thing there that alters seismic waves that is though to 'point' one way or another, almost like a cone or pyramid or something. Of course we imagine it to be 'hotter than the sun', but I am just kinda testing here, to see if I can find a weakness in the chain of assumptions that lead us to that conclusion. I mean, they talk about cold fusion being superior, I think, so how about another model for our basement?

Yeah, indirect evidence, mostly. There are several thousand oil and gas wells that go 4 miles down, and at least a few hundred that are beyond 5 miles. The Kola experimental well, AFAIK, is the only one that reached 7 miles. Invariably, in any one well, it gets hotter as you get deeper - 15 degrees F per thousand feet, roughly. That figure depends on where you are. And drillers are very cautious about getting accurate bottomhole temperatures, because they have to cement the pipe into the wells. If their measured temperature is too much lower than actual, the cement can set too soon. This can ruin a $20,000,000 well. The investors get upset over such things.An extrapolation of those numbers has you over 800 degrees F at 10 miles deep. If you want to propose a reservoir of bathtub temperature water at that depth to make Walt's supergeysers more friendly to Noah's little boat, go right ahead. It would be no more bizarre or evidence-free than some of the other stuff you and he have proposed. But if you do, be sure and include a mechanism to heat rocks down to the deepest we've drilled yet, and then cool them from that point to Walt's mile-thick magically-supported cavern. And then heat them again to provide magma for volcanos.Why do I waste time on these absurdities? Is it just the entertainment?This message has been edited by Coragyps, 01-21-2005 19:47 AM

Cold fusion is almost as looney as creationism.There is a mountain of evidence that the interior of the Earth is hot, hotter as you go down. Many experiments from many disciplines indicate this.The best theory that fits all the available evidence is that Walt's ideas are impossible. Time for you to put up or shut up ... what do you or Walt think is the temperature ten miles down, and for what reason do you choose whatever number you do?Evidence!