Moral Judgments

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Who is Aquinas again? Is he in my Bible?

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I presume he must be, Dawg. Because you used his argument word for word against the very direct instruction of god that "though shalt not kill".

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Well, talk to Brian, he thinks you should be able to sue me.

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Umm no I think you'll find he probably thinks that you would be prosecutable for incitement to racial hatred, not for causing "offence". But thats just another of your semantic games, subsuming all hate speech into mere 'offence' as if this was childrens argument.

I agree that my analysis used a generalized assumption of morality. I am a subjectivist at heart and one to readily point out that within any culture there are many subcultures.I made the assumption in order to answer the question and as such was addressing what I would view as the prevailing norms on use of dead humans for artifacts.That said, I would point out that norms of colonists and US citizens differed somewhat from those of Europeans, including britons. It may have had to do with living a rougher life and under more imminent conditions of attack from native americans which could be quite brutal (which is not said to lay any guilt trip on them). I'm not sure why you have it in for me today, but it is getting pretty silly. Even within slave owning cultures, there were still norms regarding conduct. Do you really believe that murder and rape were wholly acceptable in society at large? Why not submit the evidence for this, besides small anecdotal accounts. The meds have to be around there somewhere, just keep looking or ask a nurse.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Presumptions won't get you very far. How can I use his argument word for word if I've never heard of him? (I've explained This to you multiple times before) The Hebrew word, which you translate "kill" means "murder". Perhaps there is no difference between the two in your mind. That was a pathetic attempt on my part at a joke and jab at Brian. HAHA. The only person who has been incited to hatred is YOU. You sound as if you are so wound up that your bitter chatter will at any moment cause you to burst into a puff of rank yellow smoke and be gone forever. Please calm down and take a break before you reach critical mass.

Assuming you are a fundamentalist Xian who has spent time in church and religious study of some kind, it does seem odd that you would never have heard of Thomas Aquinas.That said, perhaps you simply did not remember the guy's name but heard his statements spoken by others and assumed they were part of the Bible, or at the very least an official interpretation of Biblical positions.I am unsure if you had stated something by TA but assuming you did one does not actually have to know a specific person to use his words. I suspect you have been exposed to him in some fashion or another, same for St Augustine.This message has been edited by holmes, 01-07-2005 16:09 AM

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Perhaps I should have said, "never heard of his ideals". His name actually DOES sound familiar, but I've definately never read his materials or heard anyone teach his philosophy. Now I'm curious; I'll have to google him. Sorry for dragging this OT; let's try to stay on topic.

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In the Surah a few verses clearly advocate killing anyone who does not submit to Allah and Islamists cite Mohammed's example of enforcing this command by killing hundreds of Jews and non-believers during his life.

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In the OT, it is clearly indicated that disrespectful, disobedient children are to be dragged into the center of town and stoned to death.

But Jesus says to not even get angry. And to let him without sin cast the first stone..Where does it say this in the muslim book? Or other religions?We're not Jews Shraff. mike 138 - SHraff 0.

When looking at at 13^th. Century Theologians Thomas Aquinas and Albert Magnus are the key sources.You really would do well to work through their writings. Here is a list of a few sources to begin with.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I think you should have said "never heard that those ideals were his". How can you say you definitely have not heard anyone teach his philosophy if you also state that you do not know what it is? My guess is you have heard it and simply did not know it.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

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But Jesus says to not even get angry. And to let him without sin cast the first stone..

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True, but do you believe in the whole Bible or not?The Bible includes Leviticus, does it not?Do you reject the OT or just the parts of it you don't like?

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Where does it say this in the muslim book? Or other religions?

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Buddhism advocates non-violence to such an extent that many Buddhists are vegetarians.Jainism, Zoroastrianism, and Hinduism all come to mind as non-violent religions, too, and I am sure there are more.

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We're not Jews Shraff.

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Then you must not accept the OT, right? If you reject Leviticus, why not reject Genesis?

schra! What does your name mean anyway?Back to topic!First, I believe Jesus says be slow to anger. It certainly says that in proverbs anyway. Digressage.There is no reason to reject the OT or leviticus.Jesus instituted higher laws. What I mean by that is that Jesus' laws override the OT laws. Example: In the old testament the law states "Eye for an eye." Equate that to the law of gravity. Jesus came and set a new law, "Turn the other cheek." Equate that to the law of lift. The law of lift overrides the law of gravity.Leviticus obviously has some stuff in it that doesn't apply to today. If I bang the wife and she happens to start her period, I don't go wash in the river for 7 days and have the local priest declare me clean.Leviticus does have some very relevant stuff for today though. Did you know that everyone in the US Army has an E-tool (Entrenching tool). The main purpose of this device is to bury our feces when we poop. Modern day armies have been carrying these since around the civil war (around the time bacteria was discovered).Guess who was the first (and only army until the 1800s) to have such a device? Isreal, as spelled out in leviticus. Their soldiers were commanded to bring an implement with them and bury their poop.

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

Thanks for clearing this up. I was wondering if you could explain the criteria for deciding which parts of Leviticus we should still follow and which parts we shouldn't? As per your example should we only follow those things that agree with modern science or is there a broader set of criteria?

First you say:

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There is no reason to reject the OT or leviticus.

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but then you contradict yourself by saying:Leviticus obviously has some stuff in it that doesn't apply to today.Which is it?Do you ignore the OT and Leviticus or not?Clearly, sometimes you do ignore it an sometimes you do not.Clearly, it is completely arbitrary which parts you follow and which you do not.

Could I say common sense and get away with it?There is also a verse in the bible that says, "Go build an ark of gopher wood." But you don't see me running out to Home Depot.I didn't say I was following levitical law by having an E-tool. I was just pointing something interesting out.As to which of the levitical laws we should follow? None, we should follow the laws that our government has set for us (I'll have to look up the chapter/verse in the NT, but in there it says to obey the laws of the land).

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

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As to which of the levitical laws we should follow? None, we should follow the laws that our government has set for us (I'll have to look up the chapter/verse in the NT, but in there it says to obey the laws of the land).

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So, what is your stance on homosexuality?