Moral Judgments

You could but that would open a whole can of worms as to what is "common sense". In the defense of those who believe in the OT but are not building arks God was specifically talking to Noah here. But what if someone tries to use Leviticus to establish the "laws of the land"? Shouldn't we first determine which parts to use and which parts to throw away? I think that if we are going to be using Leviticus we need to firmly establish the criteria for determining what is useful. I really thing that common sense isn't going to be sufficient because it is clear that some things which are obvious to me are not obvious to others and vice versa.

I don't reject the bible, I'm just not under the law. The NT says that if you're under the law - then the cross has no effect. "The law of sin and death" or the "law of the Spirit of life".We don't live by the law Shraff - you should know that this is not to reject the law - because Christ fulfilled it. Surely you know this by now Shraff?

It's as wrong as 2 boys kissing.

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
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And the levitical law was specifically for Isreal back in the day. Example of a levitical law you would like to see passed?

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
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mike the wiz writes:

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The NT says that if you're under the law - then the cross has no effect.

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But the NT also says that everyone is supposed to be under the law.Not one jot, not one tittle of the law shall be changed till all be fulfilled.You were circumcised at age eight by a mohel, were you not? You keep kosher, do you not?Jesus was very clear: Mosaic law is still in full effect.

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We don't live by the law Shraff - you should know that this is not to reject the law - because Christ fulfilled it.

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But the world hasn't ended. Therefore, not all has been fulfilled.Therefore, the law is still in effect.And, of course, Jesus couldn't possibly have fulfilled the law. He claimed to be the son of god which is precisely what the Messiah is NOT. That would be in direct violation of the very first commandment: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.The Messiah is a man who would personally usher in the unification of Zion through force and violence. No miracles (except those performed by god since only god can perform miracles...don't you remember what god said to Moses?) no "son of god," just a warrior king.Jesus didn't do that. Ergo, Jesus was not the Messiah.You act like Jews don't understand their own religion. How insulting.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Tal writes:

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It's as wrong as 2 boys kissing.

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And since two boys kissing isn't wrong...?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Tal writes:

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And the levitical law was specifically for Isreal back in the day.

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No, Mosaic law applies to everyone. Haven't you read your own holy book? Jesus is quite specific: Not one jot, not one tittle of the law shall be changed till all be fulfilled.All has not been fulfilled.Ergo, the law is still in effect.I do hope you were circumcised in the correct religious manner. And I certainly hope you've been keeping kosher.Not one jot, not one tittle.Who are you going to believe, Paul or Jesus?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

actually, mosaic law hinges on the condition that your people were brought out of egypt. the ten commandments for instance are a form of treaty between a greater power (god) and a lesser power (israel). it starts by heralding the reasons the lesser owes the greater something, and then listing what is owed. it's a very standard form in the ancient middle east, i hear. but the thing it heralds is the exodus.if it didn't happen, or your family wasn't a part of it, it doesn't really apply, technically.and LEVITICAL law was only for the levites. it's a tribe specific set of ordinances. i still side with jesus though.This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 01-10-2005 02:56 AM

It's a good thing it is not up to us to fulfill the law.

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

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It's as wrong as 2 boys kissing.

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Well, then, there's nothing wrong with that, if both boys want to be kissing each other.Right?

What if I want to kiss your 7 year old daughter?There's nothing wrong with that right?

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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

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How can I use his argument word for word if I've never heard of him?

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Because its common in all Christian countries with serving militaries. Its the standard chritsian apologetic for war.

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The Hebrew word, which you translate "kill" means "murder". Perhaps there is no difference between the two in your mind.

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Of course there is no difference. Such alleged difference as may be perceived depens ona dubious "just war". So once again we see self-described Christians choosing not to follow the word of god.

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What if I want to kiss your 7 year old daughter?
There's nothing wrong with that right?

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Of course there's something wrong with that, because you are an adult and my 7 year old daughter is clearly a child, who cannot give her consent.Anyway, your question above has nothing at all to do with your views on homosexuality as they relate to if you follow Levitical law or not.If you say that you do not have to follow Levitical law, then do you think that homosexuality is wrong?If you do, why?

Tal errs:

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What if I want to kiss your 7 year old daughter?

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There's nothing wrong with that right?

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A romantic kiss? Hell no it's not all right. You're an adult, you idiot! You have no business sharing a romantic kiss with a 7-year-old child. It makes no difference whether it's a girl or a boy. How dare you compare that to two boys kissing each other! Are you a pervert?

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Keep America Safe AND Free!

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But Jesus says to not even get angry. And to let him without sin cast the first stone..

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Where does it say this in the muslim book? Or other religions?

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Lots of places. The Qu'ran is a much more humanistic, sympathetic work than the bible, shockingly so in fact.Goodness and evil are not equal.
Repel evil with what is better.
Then that person with whom there was hatred,
may become your intimate friend!
And no one will be granted such goodness
except those who exercise patience and self-restraint,
none but people of the greatest good fortune.
Qur'an 41:34-35"And if you punish, you shall inflict an equivalent punishment. But if you resort to patience (instead of revenge), it would be better for the patient ones. (16:26)"...anyone who kills any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he killed all the people. And anyone who spares a life, it shall be as if he spared the lives of all the people..." (5:32)"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum,grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge."
[Al-Qur'an 9:6]"Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day Of Judgement will be doubled To him, and he will dwell Therein in ignominy. (The Noble Quran, 25:68-69)"Tal wrote:

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Jesus instituted higher laws. What I mean by that is that Jesus' laws override the OT laws. Example: In the old testament the law states "Eye for an eye." Equate that to the law of gravity. Jesus came and set a new law, "Turn the other cheek." Equate that to the law of lift. The law of lift overrides the law of gravity.

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The Qu'ran echoes:"We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers. (The Noble Quran, 5:45)"This message has been edited by contracycle, 01-10-2005 11:47 AM