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Author
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Topic: Genesis: is it to be taken literally?
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 70 of 301 (107084)
05-10-2004 10:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 65 by almeyda
05-10-2004 12:48 AM
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worship a book???
Don't worship a BOOK. The Map is not the Territory. A Treasure Map is not the Treasure. Worship GOD. If every word of the Bible were shown to be nothing but Parables, that would still have no effect on whether or not there is a GOD or on GOD's nature. almeyda, please bear with me because I really think this is important. IMHO, there are a couple things you might want to consider. First, what is the point of religion? Second, is GOD simply something that can be bound in leather?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 65 by almeyda, posted 05-10-2004 12:48 AM | | almeyda has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: worship a book???
Actually it is what he/she said.
I would never worship a book that can be reinterpreted according to mans theories or changed if it doesnt make sense. And yes, I believe that ALAH is GOD, the same God that Jews and Christians worship. By the way, so do the Muslims. And I doubt that you will find anywhere that I have said that I do not believe GOD created the heaven and the Earth. What I have said is the Genesis and most of the Bible should not be taken LITERALY.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 71 by grass monkey, posted 05-10-2004 10:30 AM | | grass monkey has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 82 of 301 (107491)
05-11-2004 2:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 81 by MonkeyBoy
05-11-2004 12:46 PM
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Re: Off topic for a minute
I certainly can't take any credit for it, but you may want to read Language in Thought and Action by S.I. Hayakawa.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by MonkeyBoy, posted 05-11-2004 12:46 PM | | MonkeyBoy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 89 by MonkeyBoy, posted 05-12-2004 9:20 AM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: we and us and GODs
Or simply polytheism.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: we and us and GODs
Why? It certainly doesn't seem so. Throughout the Bible the God of the Jews seems to acknowledge the existance of all other Gods.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 95 of 301 (107904)
05-13-2004 11:30 AM
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Reply to: Message 92 by doctrbill
05-13-2004 11:15 AM
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Re: we and us and GODs
There are many other direct statements that also seem to imply the existence of many Gods. For example consider , "I am the lord thy God" that reoccurs in numerous places. Why would the extra word "thy" be included? There is also the phrase, "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me". Why add those last two word? Why not stop at "Other Gods" Why not just say "There are no other Gods"? The people that wrote the Bible, both the old and new testaments, lived in a world where Polytheism was the norm. It is shown throughout both that polytheism is recognized, but from their point of view, the God of Israel, or Abraham or the Jews was the mightiest of the GODs. In Egypt, Moses competes in a tournament of the Gods to show how powerful the God of the Jews was. Paul explains that the shrine to the Unknown God is actually a shrine to the Christian God. It is very difficult when reading the Bible not to realize that for the writers, those living the Bible, polytheism was very real and accepted.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by doctrbill, posted 05-13-2004 11:15 AM | | doctrbill has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 102 of 301 (107951)
05-13-2004 12:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 100 by doctrbill
05-13-2004 12:42 PM
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And the Imperial WE
No I have not commented on it but there are numerous such instances. There is also the different meanings of words such as ADAM where it can mean a people, not an individual but Mankind in general. These are just part of the issues that crop up when people try to interpret the Bible literally. It is, in whichever form you choose to take it, simply a collection of oral histories that were later transcribed into written histories, by different voices, compiled at different times and in differing geographic areas, and revised to strengthen or weaken points.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 100 by doctrbill, posted 05-13-2004 12:42 PM | | doctrbill has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: IMHO there is very little in the Bible ...
What point?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 104 by Rick Rose, posted 05-13-2004 1:19 PM | | Rick Rose has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: IMHO there is very little in the Bible ...
And what does that have to do with whether Genesis should be read literally or figuratively?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 109 by Rick Rose, posted 05-13-2004 3:52 PM | | Rick Rose has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: IMHO there is very little in the Bible ...
I'm old and slow witted. I still do not understand what point you are trying to make. Sorry. Mea Culpa.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 111 by Rick Rose, posted 05-13-2004 3:57 PM | | Rick Rose has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: IMHO there is very little in the Bible ...
No, don't see it that way at all. Jesus consistantly uses parable as a way of teaching. The truth or actuality of the parable has nothing to do with the point being taught.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 113 by Rick Rose, posted 05-13-2004 7:17 PM | | Rick Rose has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 133 of 301 (129367)
08-01-2004 5:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 131 by mpaul73
08-01-2004 5:36 PM
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This thread is not about Evolution, we will certainly get to discuss that with you in other threads, but about whether Genesis should be taken literally. There is nothing in Christian Dogma that requires or even suggests that Genesis is to be taken literally. In fact, any attempt to take Genesis literally fails when you move from Genesis 1 to Genesis 2. Given that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 are mutually exclusive if taken literally, how do you reconcile any belief that requires such an act of gymnastics? As Bishop Sims said when talking about using Genesis as a basis for describing how the life we see around us came about,
Insistence upon dated and partially contradictory statements of how as conditions for true belief in the why of creation cannot qualify either as faithful religion or as intelligent science.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 131 by mpaul73, posted 08-01-2004 5:36 PM | | mpaul73 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 134 by mpaul73, posted 08-01-2004 6:27 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 136 of 301 (129381)
08-01-2004 6:45 PM
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Reply to: Message 134 by mpaul73
08-01-2004 6:27 PM
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Genesis 1 and 2 do not contradict if you *understand* them correctly. And just how do you do that literally?
I take Genesis literally because Jesus Christ took it literally, amoungst other reasons. Actually, there is no more evidence that Jesus took them literally than that he took the story of the good master or the one about the houses built on different foundations literally. Jesus taught by story and parable. There is no reason to think that he took Genesis as any more real than the subjects of any other illustrative tale.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 134 by mpaul73, posted 08-01-2004 6:27 PM | | mpaul73 has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 140 of 301 (133832)
08-14-2004 1:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 138 by lfen
08-13-2004 4:25 PM
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Re: Bible or Universe: man or God
But even in Buddhism, there is the Pangu myth. In many ways, it is similar to the Genesis stories except that it is characterised as an awakening instead of creation.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 138 by lfen, posted 08-13-2004 4:25 PM | | lfen has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 142 by lfen, posted 08-14-2004 2:07 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Why it cannot be taken literally.
Glad you came over. As a Christian, I think that what you quoted is one of the reasons that Genesis was never meant to be taken literally. You laid out the sequence:
Day 1: Heaven, earth, light (Day), and dark (Night)
Day 2: The firmament, separating the waters above the firmament from those below the firmament
Day 3: Sea, Dry land, and vegetation
Day 4: Sun, moon, stars
Day 5: Marine life and birds
Day 6: All land-dwelling creatures, including Man
There it describes creating light and dark on day one yet the sun, the sources and cause for light and dark, is not created until day 4. Of course that is only one of the indications, the conflicts between the versions of Creation within Genesis is yet another. And there are many, many other indications that Genesis is no more than a collection of fireside tales that have been woven together, including multiple versions where needed for political or cultural reasons. Genesis has value in that there are lessons to be learned from the tales, but they were no more meant to be taken literally than Little Red Ridinghood, the Pied Piper, or Hansel and Gretel.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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