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Author Topic:   Genesis: is it to be taken literally?
cromwell
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 301 (106608)
05-08-2004 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by crashfrog
05-08-2004 8:44 AM


Measuring stick
Crashfrog...You required literal reading from the bible showing that life began 6000 years ago.The bible doesn't state that life,or that the age of the earth is only 6000 years old,however it does state that human history is only 6000 years old.
To obtain the chronological dating you need pivotal dates.
A pivotal date is a calendar date in history that has a sound basis for acceptance from both camps,one that corresponds to a specific event recorded in the Bible. It can then be used as the starting point from which a series of Bible events can be located on the calendar with certainty.Once this pivotal point is fixed, calculations forward or backward from this date are made from accurate records in the Bible itself.
One such date in the Greek scriptures,harmonizing with both Biblical and secular history, is the year 29 C.E.,the early months of which were in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar,who was named emperor by the Roman Senate on September 15 14 C.E. Gregorian calendar).It was in the year 29 C.E.that John the Baptizer began his preaching and also when,perhaps about six months later,he baptized Jesus.-Lu 3:1-3, 21, 23; 1:36.
The pivotal date for the Hebrew Scriptures... A prominent event recorded both in the Bible and in secular history is the overthrow of the city of Babylon by the Medes and Persians under Cyrus. The Bible records this event at>> Daniel 5:30.<< Various historical sources (including Diodorus, Africanus, Eusebius, Ptolemy, and the Babylonian tablets) support 539 B.C.E. as the year for the overthrow of Babylon by Cyrus. The Nabonidus Chronicle gives the month and day of the city’s fall (the year is missing). Secular chronologers have thus set the date for the fall of Babylon as October 11, 539 B.C.E., according to the Julian calendar, or October 5 by the Gregorian calendar.
29 Following the overthrow of Babylon, and during his first year as ruler of conquered Babylon, Cyrus issued his famous decree permitting the Jews to return to Jerusalem. In view of the Bible record, the decree was likely made late in 538 B.C.E. or toward the spring of 537 B.C.E. This would give ample opportunity for the Jews to resettle in their homeland and to come up to Jerusalem to restore the worship of God.
Looking at the following dates.(You will need to refer to the bible to verify the dates.)gives an indication of how the biblical chronology works.
This is only a brief outline.I can go into detail if you wish,but it will probably bore the frog legs off of you.
Event Calendar Date Time Period
Between Events
From the creation of
Adam 4026 B.C.E.
To the start of the
Flood 2370 B.C.E. 1,656 years
To the validating of
the Abrahamic
covenant 1943 B.C.E. 427 years
To the Exodus from
Egypt 1513 B.C.E. 430 years
To the start of the
temple construction 1034 B.C.E. 479 years
To the division of
the kingdom 997 B.C.E. 37 years
To the desolation of
Judah 607 B.C.E. 390 years
To the return of the
Jews from exile
( 2 years from the
pivotal date) 537 B.C.E. 70 years
To the rebuilding of
Jerusalem’s walls 455 B.C.E. 82 years
To the baptism of
Jesus 29 C.E. 483 years
To the present 2004 C.E. 1,975 years
Total time period
from Adam’s creation
to 2004 C.E. 6,029 years
From Adam’s creation to the Flood.The 1,656 years of this period are set out in Genesis 5:1-29; 7:6,
Of course there are many that don't agree with the chronology of the bible as at times the dates don't fit in with the archaeological findings.But can one truly outwardly declare that archaeological findings and the subsequent dates attached to the findings are infallible? However when looking at the biblical chronology,(and it needs to be looked at in detail) it at least is accurate within its own internal chronology.
,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2004 8:44 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Rick Rose, posted 05-13-2004 12:44 PM cromwell has replied

cromwell
Inactive Member


Message 116 of 301 (108150)
05-14-2004 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Rick Rose
05-13-2004 12:44 PM


Rick Rose.
Your observations are correct.Brians Mother would say about me He’s a very naughty boy It is not usually advisable within my religion to debate with,what many would say Under the threat of possibly debating with apostates. But so many I know personally are surface believers,I have deepened my search for God.After all,you know that we need to take in accurate knowledge of Gods ways,as requested in the scriptures.
You understand the true interpretation of the scriptural word.. stake (Greek stauros,xylon) e.t.c. as opposed to the perversion of the translation to a cross.You also quote Matthew from the NWT bible.One where Jehovahs name remains in the scriptures.
Same faith,or do you just agree with certain points?
A little late,but the term El,Elohah and Elohim have various connotations and the meanings have to be realised within the context of the scripture.
Anything that is worshiped can be termed a god, inasmuch as the worshiper attributes to it might greater than his own and venerates it. A person can even let his belly be a god. (Ro 16:18; Php 3:18, 19) The Bible makes mention of many gods (Ps 86:8; 1Co 8:5, 6), False idolised gods are valueless gods.Ps 96:5;.
Among the Hebrew words that are translated God is El, probably meaning Mighty One; Strong One. (Ge 14:18) It is used with reference to Jehovah (Gods name), to other gods, and to men. El is used prolifically in proper names, such as Elisha (meaning God Is Salvation) and Michael (Who Is Like God?). In some places El appears with the definite article (haEl, literally, the God) with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.Ge 46:3; 2Sa 22:31; . Concerning the use of haElohim, F. Zorell says: In the Holy Scriptures especially the one true God, Jehovah, is designated by this word; . . . ‘Jehovah is the [one true] God’ De 4:35; 4:39; Jos 22:34; 2Sa 7:28; 1Ki 8:60 etc.Lexicon Hebraicum Veteris Testamenti, Rome, 1984, p. 54;
At Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is prophetically called El Gibbohr, Mighty God (not El Shaddai [God Almighty], which is applied to Jehovah at Genesis 17:1).
The plural form, elim, is used when referring to other gods: Ex 15:11. It is also used as the plural of majesty and excellence, as in Psalm 89:6: Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God [bibeneh Elim]? That the plural form is used to denote a single individual here and in a number of other places is supported by the translation of Elim by the singular form Theos in the Greek Septuagint; likewise by Deus in the Latin Vulgate.
Elohim is the plural of elohah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods (Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. Elohim is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.
When applying the named God Jehovah Elohim is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. (Ge 1:1) Regarding this, Aaron Ember wrote: That the language of the Old Testament has entirely given up the idea of plurality in . .Elohim (as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. . . . [Elohim] must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God.The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208.
The title Elohim draws attention to the true God Jehovah’s strength as the Creator. It appears 35 times by itself in the account of creation, and every time the verb describing what he said and did is in the singular number. (Ge 1:1—2:4) Within God is his substance of infinite power.
At Psalm 8:5, the godlike ones,angels are also referred to as elohim, as is confirmed by Paul’s quotation of the passage at Hebrews 2:6-8. They are called beneh haElohim, sons of God (KJ); sons of the true God (NW), at Genesis 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1. Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, by Koehler and Baumgartner (1958), page 134, says: (individual) divine beings, gods. And page 51 says: the (single) gods, and it cites Genesis 6:2; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Hence, at Psalm 8:5 elohim is rendered angels (LXX); godlike ones (NW).
The word elohim is also used when referring to false idol gods. Sometimes this plural form means simply gods. (Ex 12:12; 20:23) At other times it is the plural of excellence and only one god (or goddess) is referred to. However, these gods were clearly not trinities.1Sa 5:7b (Dagon); 1Ki 11:5 (goddess Ashtoreth);
At Psalm 82:1, 6, elohim is used of men, human judges in Israel. Jesus quoted from this Psalm at John 10:34, 35. They were gods in their capacity as representatives of and spokesmen for Jehovah. Similarly Moses was told that he was to serve as God to Aaron and to Pharaoh.Ex 4:16, ftn; 7: (Ge 5:22)
[Reference book: Insight on the scriptures.Modified.]
There is nothing mythical about Genesis.When you take out the equation of God,then it will seem mythical and it would be impossible to apply the miracles and the creative procedure.With God involved we can approach the subjects differently.
The bible was deliberately written through Gods inspiration as to be almost unbelieveable.It wasn’t put across to us so that only the intelligent can work it out and attain salvation.If this was so the foolish would not stand a chance.Salvation is open to all,by simply scratching away the surface and taking in the knowledge of God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Rick Rose, posted 05-13-2004 12:44 PM Rick Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Rick Rose, posted 05-14-2004 9:28 PM cromwell has not replied
 Message 124 by Rick Rose, posted 05-14-2004 10:42 PM cromwell has replied

cromwell
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 301 (108371)
05-15-2004 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Rick Rose
05-14-2004 10:42 PM


Fellow believer
Rick Rose..Welcome brother!
I have very little time,having to meet deadlines in my line of work.So i can't often post as prolifically as some.(I gave up on the Exodus topic.)
I will look at the topic you suggest.
Regards Rod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Rick Rose, posted 05-14-2004 10:42 PM Rick Rose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Rick Rose, posted 05-15-2004 10:57 PM cromwell has not replied

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