Hyper evolution in the bible

what?

Whatever some may experience, many have had after death experiences, as I read it. Clinically dead. To say it all is some brain function, is to merely state a belief, or opinion, absolutely.This message has been edited by simple, 07-27-2005 01:42 AM

Job 1:6; Job 2:1; Job 38:7; Psalms 29:1; Psalms 82:6

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no, my point was that "angel" has become a generalized term. angels, cherubs, seraphs, and sons of god, even if all are indeed divine, are all separate classes of divine beings.

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And the fact is, angels were refered to as the sons of God. (Job 1:6; Job 2:1; Job 38:7; Psalms 29:1; Psalms 82:6)

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jeeze, you don't give up, do you? ok, then why does the spiritual "coming beyond the veil" show a merge in one place, but not another?

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Just because some spiritual beings came to Sodom, doesn't mean they were merged with it! Angelic help, or visitation from the spiritual world doeas not mean, I would think, that some 'merge' happens. Lazarus was raised from the dead, but not merged, as he eventually died again.

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oh yeah? like what.

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Like things that are impossible in the physical only. Like plants being created on day 3, and eaten on day 6. Man had to eat, as well as beast. Like lifespans of near 1000 yrs, impossible today. And many other evidences. The flood, for example, I believe required a merge.

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ad hoc, and tired speculation.

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Not at all, elementary, really. God made them for signs for men, which means we had to see them. Absolutely.

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So does even the near thousand year lifespans of early man, I'd say!

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why?

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Because it is impossible in the physical only! With the spiritual, we know men will live forever, so it is reasonable to assume that some measure of the spiritual was at work here! Can you provide any other explanation? (other than mocking disbelief)

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fast growing? where.

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from day 3 to day 6, behold, food for all flesh, and fruit on trees. Behold Noah's fresh twig, not a year old, but fresh. Water was only down below mountain peaks then for days. Can you provide some better explanation?

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whoa whoa whoa. scientific evidence of the spiritual?

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Not that you would recognize. But we have evidence of a fossil record, of present light speed, of known present decay, of lifespans being limited now, and that we do live in physical only universe.
This post is too long, I was going to drop another 'bomb' about the split.

Why don't you fuck off then?and I don't mean this in a nasty way but rather why not take a break or just lurk for a bit. Go to Wikipedia and hit the random page button, learn about something new? (does wonders for me that random page button).

yes. but.if someone can have an nde without dying, and without ever being clinically dead, and reports the same exact imagery and events the other people have, what is it saying? think about this one, simple. we know that in one case, such images are caused by lack of oxygen. in the other case, the brain is not getting oxygen either. why do you think they see what they see?

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אָרַח

uh. no. none of those verses say that the sons of god are angels. they just mention the words "sons of god." that doesn't validate your point. hey! my point exactly. so did adam and eve, in your 'merged world' i might add. never seen a plant grow in 3 days? yeah, or a lot of water. i'm gonna go with "a lot of water." no, ad hoc and tired speculation. you're using the speculation that starlight was created on the way to prove another ad hoc speculation. do you even realize how ridiculous you sound? heck, scientology has a better story than that! and your merged state too:

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Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

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hmm. no, it's not reasonable to assume. it's never reasonable to assume, especially not with you. that's all you do, assume and build speculations on top of each other, on top of your fault foundation of assumptions. plants do grow remarkably fast, you know. like i said, we have a plant in our backyard we have to trim every week, or else it runs all over everything. so what you're saying is that there's actually a LACK of evidence for your case? yes, that's exactly what you've been doing: bombing.

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אָרַח

I've seen dandelions grow in less than three days. They make a nutritious salad, I'm told.Does that mean my lawn is "merged" with the spiritual?

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People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

People see visions after fasting as well, as this is one known method to get a clearer signal from the spirit world. People also have dreams, where they have been taken to the 'city in the sky' for a visit. Then, like John in the bible, he was taken on a very spiritual journey, with, apparently none of these factors at play. So, there are many ways to have a visit to the spirit world! If those with nde's sometimes have the genuine experience of those who actually did die, and came back to tell about it, I see no problem at all! If some nde's were fake, or drug inspired, or whatnot, fine, there's a lot of that stuff going round. Nevertheless the predominant themes of different kinds of heavenly experiences tend to agree to a large extent, so the evidence is in!
To try to minimize all spiritual experience of men, with some half baked high sounding medical quackery physical only, flesh only, 'there are no alps' type of explanation, is just knavish impishness, or perhaps genuine ignorance at best!

How about trees that bear fruit? And food for all life on earth in 3 days? Impossible in only a physical universe, beyond question. So the choice remains, either try to toss out the bible, or admit that a spiritual element was indeed necessary as the bible tells the story! Off the fence, mate.

How about them?I see no reason why all life on earth couldn't have subsisted on dandelions for 3 measly days. Have you ever seen my lawn? I could feed Africa for a year (if we could manage the transportation difficulties). I'm not trying to toss out the Bible. I'm just reading it. Maybe you should try that.

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People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

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uh. no. none of those verses say that the sons of god are angels. they just mention the words "sons of god." that doesn't validate your point.

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". It is more accurate to see the sons of God as either demons (angels in rebellion against God) or uniquely demon-possessed men, and the daughters of men as human women.i. The phrase sons of God clearly refers to angelic creatures when it is used the three other times in the Old Testament (Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7). The translators of the Septuagint translated sons of God as "angels." They clearly thought it referred to angelic beings, not the line of Seth.
David Guzik's Commentary - StudyLight.org
So there are a few opinions on it. You may chose one, but not dictate to me what is possible in the range of bonifide choices. Basically my opinion is that sons of God refers to just that, His children, that will be eternal, like us, or angels, His creations.

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so did adam and eve, in your 'merged world' i might add.

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Yes, they did, after the fall, that was the penalty, but it does appear the universe itself took some time to be seperated. Just because the earth itself was still merged somewhat with the spiritual universe, does not mean that people under a curse living on it's surface would live forever! With the tree, in that world, however, they could have, so an armed guard had to be posted to prevent just that! Men, even then were like we are, with a body, and a spirit, which were abiding together, but seperate. This is obvious, because our body returns to dust, but our spirit lives on seperately.

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never seen a plant grow in 3 days?

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Not trees, and enough plants to feed all life on eart! Have you?

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. you're using the speculation that starlight was created on the way to prove another ad hoc speculation.

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No. I didn't say that. After the split, we were left with our present version of light, that took the place of what was here before, spiritual light. And it only sounds daft to devotees of the box of the physical only!

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Because it is impossible in the physical only!

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and your merged state too:

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No, it is possible, because the spiritual is what is making it possible.

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Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
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hmm.

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I don't see your point with the hmm, and the verse here, what are you trying to say?

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so what you're saying is that there's actually a LACK of evidence for your case?

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No, good evidence for it. But as with all evidence, when we apply it to some far, unknown past, there is some belief involved. Either a belief that all there ever was is the physical only, or a belief that there was more!This message has been edited by simple, 07-27-2005 02:07 PM

You have the 3 days mixed up. It was three days from when trees and plants were made, till men and beast were made, and needed to eat them. News flash: Africa cannot be fed, nor the world, and all creatures, and cattle- with 3 days growth of plants! Is this really news to you? There is a difference between say, 5 billion people eating meals as well as billions of animals, and what your grass in your yard produces! Maybe you could feed a goat!This message has been edited by simple, 07-27-2005 02:05 PM

I'm saying it can. And from my lawn alone, no less.Let's do the experiment: You round up the transport planes. I'll start on the salads.Your scenario is far loonier than mine. (By the way, does it even occur to you that nobody is taking you seriously?)

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People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

Your scenario is invalid. The bible account is wonderfully valid, and fits with men's known experience with things spiritual, as well as our knowledge of science!
People do take both the bible, and the spiritual seriously! Between the two, most people on earth, actually!
Now if you have some biblical ground to contest something I say, feel free to step in the ring. If not, then you have nothing at all but a belief that these things do not exist, no proof, and nothing science can do to help you there either.

On the contrary, my scenario is testable.In fact, we're testing it right now. I have enough salads made for the Cameroons. Where are them planes? The salads are starting to wilt.