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Author Topic:   Hyper evolution in the bible
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 317 (221409)
07-03-2005 1:04 AM


Evolution, if any at all did occur, is no longer a mystery. The bible talks about God planting a garden, then, in a few days, all animals and men on earth were eating it. that is fast growth. When the spiritual is merged with the physical this is how it can work. Look at Noah, the on the boat, I believe it was a year and ten days. How did the animals eat when they got off? Plants grew quicker. The crow found nothing, but a week or whatever later, and the bird sent out had a live olive branch. It could not have survived a year under water, so must have grown quickly. Aaron's rod budded, and even bore almonds in a hurry as well, further proof that when not in a physical only envrioment, this can happen.
Then there was the king turned into a beast who ate grass for several years, on all fours. Did not take millions of years! These are some examples of very fast adaption, or some might say hyper evolution.
The key is the spiritual as well as the physical was at work. In our present situation, only the physical is at work, and this would be impossible, as would man living almost a thousand years, let alone forever! This indicates that there was some merge in the past, or that it is all a pack of....well, fables.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 279 by TheLiteralist, posted 08-30-2005 6:34 AM simple has replied

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Message 2 of 317 (221434)
07-03-2005 10:10 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 3 of 317 (221453)
07-03-2005 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by simple
07-03-2005 1:04 AM


These are some examples of very fast adaption, or some might say hyper evolution.
Er, no. These are some examples of stories from the Bible, and we know that you can interpret the Bible in any way you need to in order to support any arbitrary position.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 1:04 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 1:34 PM crashfrog has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 317 (221454)
07-03-2005 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by crashfrog
07-03-2005 1:02 PM


back to the garden
No interpretaion really needed here. He planted a garden, we know this.
" And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
When did He do this? On the third day. "12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. "
And, on day 5 and six, came men and beast. So, out of the ground, it grew pretty quickly!
This is not twisting, or controversial or arbitrary. It is the simple truth of what the bible has to say.
The other things I mentioned as well show that in a merged world, with the spiritual and physical, this is how it works. Now you can disbelieve the bible, fine, but you cannot say it did not work this way.
Since we now know that hyper evolution could happen quickly, the bible embraces science, and any rapid adaptation it may require. Yet, we can now go back to teaching children the proper timeframe of the bible, as part of science, and creation as well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 07-03-2005 1:02 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by jar, posted 07-03-2005 1:42 PM simple has replied
 Message 6 by crashfrog, posted 07-03-2005 2:03 PM simple has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 317 (221455)
07-03-2005 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by simple
07-03-2005 1:34 PM


Re: back to the garden
I can support your right to believe such stuff until you get down to the end of your second post.
Now you can disbelieve the bible, fine, but you cannot say it did not work this way.
Of course we can. It never happened that way.
Since we now know that hyper evolution could happen quickly, the bible embraces science, and any rapid adaptation it may require.
Well, no we don't know that hyper-evolution happened or even could happen. If you want to say that you believe it happened, that's fine. If though you want to assert it happened as a fact, then you need to provide the evidence.
Yet, we can now go back to teaching children the proper timeframe of the bible, as part of science, and creation as well.
You can as long as you understand that you are teaching something that is false.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 1:34 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 2:54 PM jar has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 6 of 317 (221456)
07-03-2005 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by simple
07-03-2005 1:34 PM


Re: back to the garden
The other things I mentioned as well show that in a merged world, with the spiritual and physical, this is how it works.
Your "merged world" is not found in the Bible. That's the part that's your interpretation - your invention, in fact.
Since we now know that hyper evolution could happen quickly
No, once again, we don't know that. We just know that the Bible can be interpreted to say something like that.
Now you can disbelieve the bible, fine, but you cannot say it did not work this way.
I can say it did not work that way, because you've had to invent something not found in the Bible for it to work.
the bible embraces science, and any rapid adaptation it may require.
No, once more, the Bible doesn't, because you had to make something up for it to work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 1:34 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 3:21 PM crashfrog has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 317 (221457)
07-03-2005 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
07-03-2005 1:42 PM


Re: back to the garden
quote:
Of course we can. It never happened that way.
Well, if God did not plant a garden that grew for man, how did it happen, where did I go wrong in reading the bible here?
quote:
. If though you want to assert it happened as a fact, then you need to provide the evidence.
For starters, many people accept the bible as evidence. Is there any reason therin you could disagree with? People do have a right to believe, as you say, just as some have a right to believe in only the physical, but not a right to cram it down the throats of kids. The bible does tell us of growth not possible in a physical only world. Nothing physical only science can do to disprove this, as it is true. Therefore any adaptation or what some call evolution is covered by the bible, in the 6000 years timeframe. It cannot be disproved, and that there always was only the physical, cannot be proved.
quote:
You can as long as you understand that you are teaching something that is false.
I am happy to announce that this can no longer be said with any authority. Anthing you could possibly base support to back up your statement would be physical only, and under the assumption this was all there ever was. That assumption is absolutely a belief, and nothing more. God's word also is a belief, but has evidences galore.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by jar, posted 07-03-2005 1:42 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 07-03-2005 3:03 PM simple has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 317 (221460)
07-03-2005 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by simple
07-03-2005 2:54 PM


Re: back to the garden
Well, if God did not plant a garden that grew for man, how did it happen, where did I go wrong in reading the bible here?
When you can provide some evidence that the Garden of Eden ever existed, then we can discuss that. Where you went wrong is in assuming that the Bible is to be interpreted literally. That's fine as long as it's a personal belief, but it falls apart theologically or scientificly when you try to say that it's fact.
For starters, many people accept the bible as evidence.
They are free to believe that is so. It is only when they try to support such a belief as fact that things fall apart.
When you have some evidence, please return and present it. So far all you've ever produced is bare assertions with no evidence in support.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 2:54 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 3:34 PM jar has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 317 (221462)
07-03-2005 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by crashfrog
07-03-2005 2:03 PM


Re: back to the garden
quote:
Your "merged world" is not found in the Bible. That's the part that's your interpretation - your invention, in fact.
Without the addition to the physical of the spiritual, or merge, we would not be able to live forever, it is impossible. God's garden would not be able to have grown into tall trees in 2 days, in eden. (Actually it says east of eden-I wonder if eden could have been the nearby sea? I'll have to look into that). Aaron's rod could not have budded, even growing almonds! Jesus could not have His risen spirit/physical eternal body. A merge of the two. Noah and his animals would have a hard time eating after the waters receeded. But we see the bird brought a fresh olive twig with leaves on it, that had grown in the days (literally) since the waters went down somewhat, from totally covering the earth for many months! Etc.
The bible talks of both, and even both together at times, you cannot deny it. Don't try to give me the blame or credit for it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by crashfrog, posted 07-03-2005 2:03 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 07-03-2005 4:06 PM simple has replied
 Message 45 by arachnophilia, posted 07-05-2005 2:24 PM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 317 (221464)
07-03-2005 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
07-03-2005 3:03 PM


Re: back to the garden
quote:
When you can provide some evidence that the Garden of Eden ever existed, then we can discuss that.
When you can provide any it didn't just let us know. Here, however, we are looking at what the bible says about it, and not what a religious belief system of faith only in the physical has to say about it! Can you agree at least, whatever you believe, that the bible does tell of things growing fast, basically hyper evoluting?
If so, we can move a little further.
quote:
That's fine as long as it's a personal belief, but it falls apart theologically or scientificly when you try to say that it's fact
Not in the least! Really! Physical only science can say diddly about it at all, for sure! And, theologically, it stands as the best by far, compared to the compromise bible theories. He planted a garden, in 2 or 3 days trees were there, and we were eating them. The only so called theological challenge is not that the bible says this, and many other similar things, but that some do not believe it.
quote:
It is only when they try to support such a belief as fact that things fall apart
No, it stands like the rock of Gibraltar. It is physical only based science that falls flat as a flounder when it tries to use todays physical only processes to dream up a future where the sun will burn out, or a past where some lifeform magically appeared.
In this thread, the bible is admissable as evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 07-03-2005 3:03 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by DrJones*, posted 07-03-2005 3:41 PM simple has replied
 Message 12 by jar, posted 07-03-2005 3:48 PM simple has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 11 of 317 (221465)
07-03-2005 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by simple
07-03-2005 3:34 PM


Re: back to the garden
Can you agree at least, whatever you believe, that the bible does tell of things growing fast, basically hyper evoluting?
Fast growth does not equal "hyper"-evolution.

*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 3:34 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 8:45 PM DrJones* has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 12 of 317 (221466)
07-03-2005 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by simple
07-03-2005 3:34 PM


The Bible as Evidence
In this thread, the bible is admissable as evidence.
Yes it is, and it carries exactly the same weight of evidence as the MicMac Creation Myth.
You are free to believe anything you want. If and when you have some evidence, please present it.
This message has been edited by jar, 07-03-2005 02:49 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 3:34 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 8:47 PM jar has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 13 of 317 (221467)
07-03-2005 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by simple
07-03-2005 3:21 PM


Re: back to the garden
Without the addition to the physical of the spiritual, or merge, we would not be able to live forever, it is impossible.
Possibility is not, apparently, a prerequisite for inclusion in the Bible. The Bible describes the occurances of plenty that is impossible.
Moreover, you're not the determiner of what is impossible and what is not.
But we see the bird brought a fresh olive twig with leaves on it, that had grown in the days (literally) since the waters went down somewhat, from totally covering the earth for many months! Etc.
Well, no, once again - we don't see those things happen; the Bible says they happened.
The bible talks of both, and even both together at times, you cannot deny it.
I can, am, and have denied it. Your concepts and phraseology do not appear in the Bible. You appear to suffer under the arrogant delusion that you get add appendeces to God's word.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 3:21 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by simple, posted 07-03-2005 9:01 PM crashfrog has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 317 (221496)
07-03-2005 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by DrJones*
07-03-2005 3:41 PM


Re: back to the garden
quote:
Fast growth does not equal "hyper"-evolution
But for things to rapidly adapt, they must be able to have similar extrordinary qualities. I think I also gave the example of king Nebuchanezzar who was changed into a beast, ate grass like an ox for seven years, then was hyper changed back to a man. The tree of life by the river of life in the golden city has 12 different kinds of fruit. Every month of the year, it has a different kind. This is not possible to change or keep evolving rapidly, if you prefer, in this physical world! Again, the spiritual is needed, not only the physical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by DrJones*, posted 07-03-2005 3:41 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by DrJones*, posted 07-03-2005 8:53 PM simple has replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 317 (221497)
07-03-2005 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by jar
07-03-2005 3:48 PM


Re: The PO as Evidence
quote:
In this thread, the bible is admissable as evidence.
Yes it is, and it carries exactly the same weight of evidence as ...
As, .. a belief that all that ever will exist is a physical only universe. Well, more, actually, because it has witnessed miracles, and documented prophesies, and it is alive, and works for hundreds of millions of people today.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by jar, posted 07-03-2005 3:48 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by crashfrog, posted 07-03-2005 8:58 PM simple has replied
 Message 19 by jar, posted 07-03-2005 9:02 PM simple has replied

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