Hyper evolution in the bible

Everything you listed except possibly the "olive branch" is a miracle.I believe the Bible, and, consequently, I believe in miracles.Just to correct a common misconception, though, the dove that Noah sent out came back with an olive leaf...not an olive branch. Heh. Can you imagine a dove flying around with an olive branch in its beak? A twig, maybe...but a branch? Anyways...it was a LEAF!If I understand things correctly, no miracle is required for an olive branch buried in mud (near the surface) to produce leaves in a fairly short time.My dad has often taken cuttings from fruit trees and just stuck them in the ground. These cuttings will (occasionally) take root and produce leaves. In the very damp conditions right after the Flood, the olive tree could probably do this easily.But, if not...then, hey, its another miracle...and I don't mind that a bit.I am responding, btw, to your opening remarks...not anything in the 19 pages of responses that follow.--JasonThis message has been edited by TheLiteralist, 08-30-2005 06:36 AM

Simple,I am a Bible-believer. I also believe that the Flood occurred and that the earth is fairly young (6000 years old?). That's why my "evc name" is TheLiteralist...it lets people know I interpret the scriptures literally.Having said that (to let you know which side of the fence I am on, so to speak)...Are you arguing that there was a time when the spiritual and physical world's were "merged" such that physical laws were simply different? And that the spiritual and physical realms "split" (indicated by the "division" mentioned in conjunction with Peleg's name)...so that, since then, the physical laws have been as they are today?--JasonThis message has been edited by TheLiteralist, 09-01-2005 01:25 AM

hi randman (and simple), This is what I have thought all my life. However, giving the matter a bit of thought just now, I see another possibility. That is, that God was tired of trying to "convince" people to do right...IOW, He was 'done talking' and was about to take action (in 120 years)...by wiping out the wicked human race, destroying the earth, and starting over with Noah.There can be no seperation of the physical from the spiritual however. Because, as I understand things, the physical exists only because of the spiritual (i.e., God's word). Which I think you recognize, too, randman.To try to explain everything in the Bible with science is to deny miracles, while the Bible clearly indicates that God can, has, and does oververride the normal physical laws -- that is, He performs miracles (be they terrible or wonderful)!While I believe that the Flood left behind evidence that can be explored scientifically, the Flood is clearly a miraculous event. I do not believe the entire thing can be explained scientifically. The sun standing still is no less a miraculous event.--JasonAbE:
The normal physical laws exist only because God made them exist...they are under His control at all times.AbE:
Also, while I strongly disagree with the idea of merged realms as a method to explain miracles in the Bible, I applaud simple's faith in the Bible.This message has been edited by TheLiteralist, 09-01-2005 02:39 AM

Hi Simple,I was using the term "merged realms" to describe your belief system in general.I actually disagree with idea that the physical realm has been split from spiritual realm. I see the physical as a mere extension of the spiritual, which depends completely upon the spiritual (God's word) for it's existence and operation...and always subject to the spiritual.You probably won't see things my way. You seem very convinced of the idea of a PO universe, which I see as impossible. Perhaps you will consider a few points, though.In the days of Eber the earth was divided. [Genesis 10:25] I think that a few verses later -- Genesis 10:32 -- a clue as to what is meant by "divided" is given:These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.As far as I can tell, what is being spoken of is the division of the earth into nations...not the division of the spiritual from the physical.You might also consider the words of 2 Peter 3:5-7, which says: The spiritual [the word of God] made and keeps the physical [the universe and the earth].Finally, there are tremendous miracles after the "split" you propose. Just one of which is the sun standing still. For the sun to stand still (the moving of the sun is an illusion caused by the rotation of the earth), the earth must suddenly stop rotating...it rotates at 1000 mph at the equator. For it to suddenly stop rotating requires God to override normal physical laws. By faith, I believe this event happened, but it is outside the realm of science to explain such a thing. All science can do is say, "Such an event would be a miracle!"You, like me, are doing your best (I assume) to try to make sense out of the physical world and the Bible, too. I don't expect you to change your views just because you've read a post on an internet message board, but, if you're like me, you will at least give consideration to my points.I am not assuming you will change your view, but I do want to let you know that I have had to change or discard several views. But, I have never had to lose faith in the Bible.I don't do that [change views] easily, though. And, I never recommend anyone make a hasty switch of views. I encourage careful thought and study.You apparently believe the Bible. If you believe Jesus enough to keep His commandments, that is more important to me than all these discussions.Good luck in your search for truth.--JasonThis message has been edited by TheLiteralist, 09-01-2005 04:28 AM

Simple,I suppose it's possible. Though I think it more likely that the Flood caused the axis change (or rather a wobble in the axis that eventually found a new equilibrium at the current tilt).However, let's suppose that God extended the day by tilting the axis. Doesn't that still prove that the physical world and spiritual world are not divided?Just a thought.--JasonAbE: While I do not consider it proof of the split you propose, I do consider that an interesting idea regarding the day extension.This message has been edited by TheLiteralist, 09-01-2005 04:23 AM