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Junior Member (Idle past 3494 days) Posts: 28 From: Australia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Was Jesus' crucifixion all part of God's plan? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What could be cheaper than not paying your bills?
Cheapens the message....does this imply that the message has value only if we pay the bill rather than God?
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
what could be more humble than surrender? Are you suggesting that surrender implies avoidance of responsibility and mission in life?
Besides...the message is not cheap. It was paid for through blood sacrifice. And Grace does not give us a right to be lazy. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Besides...the message is not cheap. It was paid for through blood sacrifice. And Grace does not give us a right to be lazy. Isaac. Have you ever read the Bible?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Yup. A soldier who surrenders is avoding his responsibility to fight the enemy. Mind you, a temporary surrender may be the best strategy but living on to fight another day is the responsible thing to do.
Are you suggesting that surrender implies avoidance of responsibility and mission in life? Phat writes:
But you're not the one paying it. It's cheap for you.
Besides...the message is not cheap. It was paid for through blood sacrifice. Phat writes:
She does if she lets you get by on faith alone.
And Grace does not give us a right to be lazy.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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Luke 9:
quote: If the disciples were preaching the gospel before Jesus had been crucified, then his crucifixion could not be a part of the gospel.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Abraham and Isaac?
Genesis 17-24 or so? what about him? Abrahams faith was credited as righteousness.. his works were obedience. Abraham was pardoned due to Gods grace, however...not through his works. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Sheesh.
Isaac Phat, think. Or even read what the Bible says.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Abrahams faith was credited as righteousness.. his works were obedience. Do you even understand what you are arguing? Abraham earned a favored place with God. Even dispensationalists generally acknowledge that the Abraham is a classic straight up example of the 'old style' covenant that they don't have to go through anymore. Abraham demonstrated the depth of his faith by being willing to sacrifice Isaac. That would be examples of action and not words. Prior to that he had a reputation as a righteous man. I believe you are going to have difficulty making your grace case this way. Abraham's descendants got free passes for doing all kinds of wrong minded stuff because God had made a covenant with Abraham and kept his word. There are other examples of descendant's being blessed because their parents were good folks despite the child being something of a dunderhead. Sampson comes to mind. But again, we are talking about people using up earned credits. And we can just as easily talk about kinds suffering the consequences of their parents bad actions.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So grace is kinda like a suspended threat? God could screw you over if He felt like it but out of the goodness of His heart He won't?
Abraham was pardoned due to Gods grace, however...not through his works.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: In my opinion, Grace is the realization that humans just don't have the proper hard wiring internally to survive as a species without Gods help. Look at the history books.
So grace is kinda like a suspended threat? God could screw you over if He felt like it but out of the goodness of His heart He won't? I could go on. Yes, ringo...we need grace. Trying to do our best is noble and necessary, but it wont be enough.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What does the evidence show Phat?
Are there fewer and smaller wars than in the past? Except for the US are not most nations solving their differences through negotiation?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
But we do survive. If we didn't, there wouldn't be any history books.
In my opinion, Grace is the realization that humans just don't have the proper hard wiring internally to survive as a species without Gods help. Look at the history books. Phat writes:
You didn't respond to my question at all. Let's try again:
Yes, ringo...we need grace.quote:
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
There are laws. Natural laws and spiritual laws. If you get too close to fire, you burn up. Thats a natural law. If you fail to meet product specifications, you get removed from the lineage. Thats a spiritual law. Grace is the gift of insurance from having your policy canceled, as per law.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9199 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
What you wrote means absolutely nothing. Seriously, it is just words strung together to sound impressive, but in actuality imparts no information whatsoever.
Do you really think anyone understands anything from that string of words?Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8563 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Do you really think anyone understands anything from that string of words? I might understand what he was getting at. Let me get out my Phat-to-English dictionary and give it a try
quote: Straight forward enough.
quote: As differentiated from natural law (physics) there are other "laws" (read consequences) for other actions in life. A tenuous free-association like connection from this to "spiritual law" is made.
quote: As for the logical flow from one sentence to the next ... it's really loose and goes like this: Your physical body is gonna die. But your spirit doesn't have to. Grace is the "don't be dead" card. To get from one to the other is more free association brainstorming kinda stuff where the logic is quite loose. Like real loose. The analogy of "gift of insurance" for everlasting life and "policy cancelled" for death is not internally consistent but since both deal with "insurance" free association sans logic makes at least some connection even if it's nonsensical. But that's OK. He knows what he meant and that's good enough. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
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