Peanut Gallery

No, it is theorised to be imagination. The skeptics propose that imagination explains the examples and is consistent with everything else we know about reality. It isn't a claim, it is a theory. It is claimed that the only known source is the imagination.The best support for that claim is the absence of any other known sources despite a good number of people looking for them for a long time. We are not asserting evidence for disproof. We are claiming that every 'psi result'/god that has a known origin transpires to be human originated. That all unknown origin psi results are consistent with human origination, and thus theorising that all such results are humanly created, unconsciously or consciously, leading to the prediction that any evidence in the future will point to human origination.We are not saying that there cannot be supernatural. We are not saying we have ruled out the supernatural. No more than evolution rules out the supernatural.If you want to assert that it is possible that a god exists outside of human conception - then the burden is on you, making that claim, to support it. Or you are the pseudoskeptic.Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

If you are having trouble remembering what you are talking about, you can scroll up and read the previous posts.

Hi Panda, Curiuosly, I am not aware that BG has a theory. So far all I've seen is a wishful thinking conjecture unsupported by any real testing or objective empirical evidence.Enjoy.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

---

Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

Hi Mod Ah, so then you have a methodology to test for supernatural effect as part of the process, a means by which you can identify experiences due to imagination and those due to supernatural phenomena.Because supernatural phenomena would invalidate the hypothesis.Enjoy.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

---

Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

The theory has been stated many times - you can't have missed it, so I guess it must have slipped your mind.Your reference to 'wishful thinking' is probably because you are having more success retaining the details of your own posts.As I said: if you are having trouble remembering what is going on in this discussion you can scroll up and read the previous posts.

Hi Panda, NO. the doubters of the theory do not have to provide diddly squat first. My argument is that we don't even have to get to the falsification element.The proponent of the theory has to provide evidence supporting his theory at the outset. Furthermore, before any dissenters can even be allowed to bring their grumblings to the fore, the originator of the theory should provide the following:1. argument proposed as a theory - show evidence that led you to this theory. After years, it seems that bluegenes may be trying. kudos, etc.2. show how your scientific analysis led you to this conclusion.nothing other than confirmation bias....3. describe the equipment you used to reach this conclusion.nothing4. provide the best documentation that your equipment was the best you could get at the time of the experiment. *definitely nothing5. detail how other scientists could reproduce your results in their laboratoryso super nothing
...
..
...
.
....* poor galileoPanda opines: BECAUSE THIS IS NOT OUR JOB YET!!!!get with the program.

---

- xongsmith, 5.7d

Sure. Get 100 people to experience the same supernatural phenomena, and have the entity behind it give some privileged information to the 100 people and then correlate the reports from the 100 people to see if they are as consistent when they are reporting on something like a horse with a jockey giving out some information.All you have to do is give us a supernatural entity to kick start the test. I suggest you find a ghost, since they seem most likely to help out, according to subjective reports that is.

Hi again Panda, A certain hypothetical conjecture has been stated many times. Calling it a theory does not actually make it one, particularly in the scientific sense: there are steps that need to be taken to go from hypothesis to theory, and I have yet to see any evidence of those steps. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with what the debate is about that all those posts are supposed to be about.The debate is about whether or not bluegenes actually has what qualifies as a scientific theory, as claimed, rather than wishful thinking based on personal bias, as demonstrated to date. the bluegenes Challenge (bluegenes and RAZD only)(bluegenes and RAZD only)[/color] statement of topic
Message 4 restatement of topic
Message 22 another restatement of topic
and many more ...Enjoy.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

---

Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

And my statement was that you are UNABLE to falsify the theory, even if you wanted to. What evidence is being ignored?
Oh - you don't know of any.Your list of requirements has been met.
But you could always just provide evidence to disprove the theory...ah, but you can't. NO!!!! IT IS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T!!!!
EVEN IF YOU WANTED TO!!!!
BECAUSE IF YOU COULD HAVE, YOU WOULD HAVE BY NOW!!!!!

That's easy. The falsification test would be: Show us a god.Show us some evidence that some phemonemon is obviously and exclusivley of supernatural origin. Oh but it most certainly does. I can flip a switch and turn off the feelings that people claim are supernatural. You can't do this unless the supernatural feelings were imagined as part of the natural functioning of the brain.I can flip a switch and give a life-long atheist the most powerful religious epiphany. You can't do this unless the supernatural feelings were imagined as part of the natural functioning of the brain. It shows more to imagination than it does to some woo-woo finger in the pipes. Maybe your problem is how you define "imagination." Just because a experience feels so excruciatingly real does not mean it may not be imagined.The demonstration is quite pointed and real. Flip a switch and get religious ecstacy. Flip it again and those imagined feelings go away.Now, unless you want to say some god has his finger on the switch and show reasonable evidence in this regard then the phnomenon stands as triggering an imagined supernatural experience.

It is good to see that you have re-discovered what you are meant to be talking about.BTW: Thanks (again) for helping support BG's theory with your 'atheist list'.
Much appreciated.

Hi again Mod, Is that the only test? There are reports of mass experiences after all.What is your methodology for accomplishing this? Remember you are the one that is devising the test, and that others should be expected to be able to reproduce it. and what is your methodology for accomplishing that? Except that you need to have already done some testing in order to go from hypothetical conjecture based on wishful thinking to scientific theory based on objective empirical evidence.You should have some evidence already, or are you just assuming, again, the truth of your claim?Enjoy.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

---

Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

Hi AZPaul You are the one making the claim, you need to substantiate it. All I am doing is questioning your claim. or the supernatural experience is just waiting to be tapped. Open a door and you can see through the opening, close the door and you can't. The reality of what is beyond the door does not depend on whether the door is open or closed.Enjoy.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

---

Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

You asked for a falsification test. I gave you one. Do you deny that such a show would falsify the proposition? And the evidence for this would be ...? And when I turn on my TV the little people dance and sing. When I turn it off they go away. So what?

Damn.
You've forgotten what you are meant to be talking about again. We are not saying that there IS evidence of 'supernatural phenomena not imagined by humans'.
We are saying that there IS NOT evidence of 'supernatural phenomena not imagined by humans'.
These may seem similar to you, but they are actually very different.I am sure that if you knew of any 'supernatural phenomena not imagined by humans', then you would have identified it by now.