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Author Topic:   Has evolution been proven ?
JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 66 of 141 (96087)
03-30-2004 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by CreationMan
03-30-2004 2:38 PM


Re: No Over Simplifying
You say the Grand Canyon ws layed down slowly over millions of years. We say it was layed down rapidly by water (they are sedimentary layers). Same evidence, different view
Nope, as pointed out already, what you are doing is ignoring evidence.
Not all the layers in the Grand Canyon are sedimentary; there are many metamorphic and igneous layers. There are many plutons that obviously cooled slowly. There are igneous layers that were not deposited uinderwater.
From Strata of the Grand Canyon - Grand Staircase:
quote:
Rocks of the Vishnu complex originated as sediments and volcanic rocks laid down on the sea floor ... After burial, the sediments and volcanics were subjected to at least two seperate episodes of regional metamorphism ... The Vishnu complex was intruded by large quantities of magma before the overlying Bass Limestone was deposited. ... At least 20 plutons are known within the Vishnu. Some plutons are highly folded and foliated by metamorphic activity (Ruby Superunit), others less so (Phantom superunit), still others totally unfoliated (Surprise Canyon superunit). ... Other intrusive igneous structures within the Vishnu include dikes and sills ... The Unkar Group consists of the Bass Limestone (up to 330ft), the Hakatai Shale (up to 985ft), the Shinumo Quartzite (1328ft), the Dox Formation (3100ft), and the Cardenas Lava (~900ft)
And, of course, when asked about a detailed model of the depostion of the different layers, the trackways, the raindrop impressions, the dessication cracks, and so on ... the creationist disappears.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by CreationMan, posted 03-30-2004 2:38 PM CreationMan has not replied

JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 81 of 141 (96646)
04-01-2004 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Milagros
04-01-2004 1:49 PM


Re: None So Blind
First: When the research of chimp DNA and human DNA is found to be "SIMILAR" what does that mean? Of course, a common ancestor.
Second: When the research of chimp DNA and human DNA is showing "DIFFERENCES" what does that mean? Of course, this is Evolution. Because it shows the "Changes" that occurred between chimp and man.
You are oversimplifying, so far that the meaning is lost.
When the DNA research shows a consistent pattern of less or more similariites that mathches the pattern of common descent and the phylogenetic tree inferred from the fossil recordm which matches the pattern of common descent and the phylogenetic tree derived from zoology, then we conclude that the DNA evidence supports common descent. If there was a significant mismatch, we'd have a problem.
When the pattern of DNA differences clearly shows mutations, dupications, etc ... that match the above, then we conclude that the differences are evidence for evolution. If the differences didn't have such a pattern, we'd have a problem.
So you are wrong ... we can lose, we just haven't lost.
We can just as easily say:
Similar DNA means , common DESIGNER and
Differences of DNA shows, the designer "CONSCIOUSLY" created variety.
Yes, you can say that ... but when it comes to backing it up and explaining why the alleged designer chose to design in such a wacky way, that looks just like something cobbled together over and over again from existing parts, that is so differnt from any other designs we know in that it has the characteristics of an evolutionarily-produced system, that has the patterns that match the other phylogenetic trees so well, that clearly indicate changes over time from common ancestors whether or not that really happened ... well ... the IDists abandon science and say "we can't know the mind of the designer" or they just abandon the discussion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Milagros, posted 04-01-2004 1:49 PM Milagros has not replied

JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 90 of 141 (97532)
04-03-2004 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by SoulFire
04-03-2004 2:47 PM


Re: Proven or not.
This is just my idea though, you don't actually have to do it willingly, b/c its going to happen anyways.
This is known as Pascal's Wager. There are plenty of problems with it not the least of which is ...
Which God are are you betting that you will face in Heaven, and why?
is anyone out there familiar with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics?
Yes, I got A's in both graduate and undergraduate thermodynamics at MIT. Please don't bring up the old "evolution breaks the scond (or first) law of thermodyamics" canard without learning something about thermodynamics yourself ... only those who don't understand thermo try that one.
Some good resources on thermodynamics, especaily as it relates to evolution, are Entropy is SimpleEntropy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics, Life on Earth - Flow of Energy and Entropy, and The Second Law of Thermodynamics in the Context of the Christian Faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by SoulFire, posted 04-03-2004 2:47 PM SoulFire has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by SoulFire, posted 04-06-2004 12:37 AM JonF has replied

JonF
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 103 of 141 (98070)
04-06-2004 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by SoulFire
04-06-2004 12:37 AM


Re: Thanks for the help
Good attitude.
You really should change your signature; it's false.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by SoulFire, posted 04-06-2004 12:37 AM SoulFire has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by SoulFire, posted 04-06-2004 10:35 AM JonF has not replied

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