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Author Topic:   Macroevolution: Its all around us...
JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 117 of 306 (208045)
05-14-2005 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by quig23
05-14-2005 5:25 AM


Re: Well EZ
As you can see "I" don't leave information undefined I explain it and many creation scientists I know try to explain this if the audience is confused.
As I can see, you do not define information. I give you credit for trying, but you failed.
Given there are going to be creationists out there who aren't going to understand information science and just say it based on mimesis. Like I said information is a coded sequence which shows order meaningful purpose.
OK, that's useless, since we don't have useful definitions for "order", "meaningful", or "purpose".
What you need to supply is an operational definition, a recipe if you will, that allows anyone to apply that definition (and only that definition) to an arbitrary section of DNA and produce a number indicating the amount of information in that DNA. Until you've supplied that your "definition" is a useless fairy story.
Random genetic mutations can't produce that the odds are astronomical making it impossible, but evolutionists say it is.
Please show your calculations of the amount of information in a genome of your choice before and after a mutation of your choice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by quig23, posted 05-14-2005 5:25 AM quig23 has not replied

JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 148 of 306 (211759)
05-27-2005 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by MickD
05-27-2005 7:57 AM


Aye, and it’s a logical choice to be part of that camp. It's simple and irrefutable - what more could you want?
Dogs giving birth to cats would refute the mainstream theory of evolutiuon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by MickD, posted 05-27-2005 7:57 AM MickD has not replied

JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 155 of 306 (211835)
05-27-2005 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by MickD
05-27-2005 2:03 PM


What I was referring to was any evidence that shows species (such as the Euro Corn Borers) crossing the boundary between kinds.
Then step 1 is for you to define "kind" in such a way that we can look at an arbitrary organism and decide what kind it is. Then we will be able to see if there are any examples of "crossing the boundary between kinds".
Please also define "DNA confinement" and list the evidence for such a phenomenon.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by MickD, posted 05-27-2005 2:57 PM JonF has replied

JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 159 of 306 (211926)
05-27-2005 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by MickD
05-27-2005 2:57 PM


I think it is obvious to all who are familiar with the evolution vs creation debate that there is a difference in opinions as to what exactly best defines a "kind".
Well, not really; nobody has yet come up with a userful definiton of a "kind". Nothing (yet) defines a "kind" at all.
My definition is that of a species bound by the same DNA code barrier.
Circular reasoning. And not a useful defintiion. A useful,meaningful defintiion allows anyone to examine an arbitrary organism and assign it to a kind, or to examin any two arbitrary organisms and decide if they are the same or different kinds. Since there is no known "DNA coide barrier", your defnition is useless.
Oh, and your reference is using circular reasoning too.
Finally, evolution of new species has often been observed.
As for the "DNA confinement" - that was merely another term for "the DNA code barrier" And you'll find that evidence here:
Not much evidence there, lots of assertions. "No new genetic material can be added" is known to be false. "Mixing the available genetic code will produce variations in the trait but will not change into a completely different feature" is an unsupported assertion. The sugar beet example shows that a particular trait has a limit in one particular process, but does not show that all or even manytraits have limits, or that that particular trait could not be changed farther by another process. "When a trait is exaggerated beyond its natural limits, the species weakens and suffers from genetically induced diseases or vulnerability to disease" is another unsupported (and falsified by observations) assertion. "No evolutionary change (i.e. micro evolution) ever adds information to the genetic material" is another false statement; information is added by mutations no matter which if the many definitions of information you use (and I notice that your source carefully does not say which definition of information he is using). "For example, a microbe would need to somehow acquire enough information through millions of errorless mutations that added to its DNA, which would enable it to become a fish" betrays a total lack of understanding of evolution; populations evolve, not individuals, so all that is needed at each step is one beneficial mutation in one individual organism, while thousands of similar organisms die (or, more corectly, fail to reproduce) from detrimental mutations. I could write thousands of words off the top of my head on the errors on that short page ... you should look for a more trustworthy source.

This message is a reply to:
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