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Author Topic:   How can evolution explain body symmetry?
NosyNed
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Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 26 of 284 (111780)
05-31-2004 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by CrackerJack
05-31-2004 5:50 AM


An example?
First, I didn't say that there weren't any asymmetrical features in any animals. I was referring to man, and a large group (majority) of animals that are symmetrical
Perhaps you could give an example of an external, asymmetrical mutation in man that you think would not be selected against (and while sexual selection has been shown to do this you may ignore that for the moment)?
Do you think we would do well with the configuration of a side-hill gouger? That is, one leg longer than the other. Would an extra eye on one side of our head offer an advantage? What did you have in mind?
After you've found a couple of those then you need to suggest some evolutionary pathways to get to them. Not all advantages configurations can be reached throught evolutionary processes.
Now there is one more point that I think has been mentioned. I'm not sure of this so it may take a bit of digging but I think that our symetrical features are not the result of "left-genes" and "right genes" but one gene for both sides with expression controled by other mechanisms.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by CrackerJack, posted 05-31-2004 5:50 AM CrackerJack has replied

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 103 of 284 (191672)
03-15-2005 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by crashfrog
03-15-2005 10:56 AM


Aquatic yes, marine - only a few
The insects are ubiquitous on land, but they are hardly present at sea (their ostensible origin).
CF writes:
That statement couldn't be farther from the truth. For instance, there are many, many aqautic insects, in every insect order from Coleoptera to Ephemeroptera (I love that name; that's the order of mayflies and it perfectly captures their short, ephemeral life cycle), Hemioptera to Trichoptera. Many more insects are aquatic during one or more of their life stages (moquitoes, etc.)
The "hardly" present refers to the "sea". I take this as a marine environment. There are some marine insects but not, I think, many. There are, of course, many fresh water examples. However, I don't see why the lack of them in the current "seas" is a big problem.

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 Message 102 by crashfrog, posted 03-15-2005 10:56 AM crashfrog has replied

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 154 of 284 (206284)
05-08-2005 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by mick
05-08-2005 4:16 PM


Looks like ....
A sea squirt ??

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 200 of 284 (226893)
07-27-2005 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by iano
07-27-2005 6:51 PM


interpretations
These people use their abilities and consider the data and come to particular conclusions about it. Other people who have similar base credentials examine the data and come to quite different conclusions about it. Opposing conclusion in fact.
In the sciences this is always a possible outcome and, in fact, is rather frequent. The process is designed to work through this.
The individuals publish, in very, very great detail their reasoning. Then others critisize it and it is corrected.
Unfortunately, the proponents of ID seem to want to go directly to the public and, at least in what I've seen ignore critism. The mathematical probability arguments still seem to be put forward even though it is pretty easy to show they flaws in them.
Why is that?
Can a closed group of people get it very badly wrong?
Yes, but so far the process has been shown to (slowly perhaps) correct when things are wrong.
You can speculate about such problems all you want. All that really counts is that you show where it has gone wrong. The ID folks don't seem to be doing a great job of that so far.

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 Message 197 by iano, posted 07-27-2005 6:51 PM iano has replied

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