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Author | Topic: What is the soul? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6467 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
In Hebrew (as in English) the soul and the spirit are represented by different words (I believe ruach and nefesh, respectively). Does this mean that the soul and the spirit are different things? I tend to think they are, possibly that the soul is what you get when you combine the spirit with the body.
The Skeptics Dictionary treats soul and spirit as being the same thing, as do some (many? most?) Christians, like Billy Graham. Obviously, I don't agree with that interpretation. I do think there is an immaterial something or other that accounts for my ability to know that I exist. I don't know if I would identify it with either the soul or the spirit. Unless there is some compelling and cogent reason to do otherwise, this discussion should go into the Bible Study forum.
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6467 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
The soul has to do with the knowledge of good and evil. The "soul" is what we use to decide between good and evil in a specific situation.
Before they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then, did Adam and Eve not have souls? Is the soul the same thing as conscience?
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6467 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
From the Spiritualism in Christianity Today site:
And the LORD God formed man of the The soul, straight from the Bible. There we have it, from the beginning, Creation, God creates mankind. He forms dust into a shape, His own image (Genesis 1:27) and breathes into the dust the "breath of life" -- this is "spirit" -- and the dust becomes something. What does the Bible say the dust becomes? Man became a living "soul." In other words, we ARE souls. I am a soul. You are a soul. The word "soul" in the Bible, "nephesh," means "breathing creature" -- a creature with spirit, or a "body" with spirit. Isn't that amazing, how clear is the direct Bible teaching, and yet millions of Christians believe that the soul is a "spirit ball hidden in my chest."
I'm not sure that many Christians would describe the soul as a "spirit ball," whether in the chest or anywhere else. However, the point that Christians seem to be willing to equate the spirit and the soul seems to be valid, as does the point that the Bible says that man became—rather than received—a soul. I suppose there may be other passages in the Bible that indicate the writer considered the soul and spirit to be the same, thus contradicting the verses quoted above, but any discussion of those would probably have to take place in a Biblical errancy or inerrancy thread.
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6467 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
jaywill writes: "And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:23) Here "... your spirit and soul and body ..." indicates three components of the human makeup. The spirit being the innermost and the body being the outermost. In between these two is the human soul. The conjuction "and" shows the distinction between the three parts. The NIV is an incorrect translation when it renders this verse "spirit, soul and body", leaving out "and" between "spirit and soul".
Comment: the NIV is not necessarily "incorrect" here, so long as one understands that the comma is conjunctive and not indicating apposition.
jaywill writes: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6) The first "Spirit" with a capital "S" is the third Person of the Triune God, the Holy Spirit. The second "spirit" with a small "s" is the human spirit of man.
A couple of questions:
jaywill writes: Since the Holy Spirit is just Christ in His spiritual form, for the Spirit to be joined to the human spirit is for the Lord Jesus to be with the human spirit. Therefore Paul writes: "The Lord be with your spirit" (2 Tim. 4:22) Jesus Christ in His pneumatic form as the Spirit of Christ, can dwell with and in the human spirit of the believer in Christ. Then the Lord is with that person's spirit. Deep within Christ the Lord lives in the person in a blended and mingled way.
Does this mean that a human can eventually become part of the Trinity? (I'm sure there are some who would say yes, and that there are others who would reject the Trinity doctine for just that reason.) Well, perhaps we're now straying into topics for another discussion. It seems that Paul conceived of the soul as being something somewhere between the spirit and the body, but not identical to either. This would seem to be at variance with the beliefs of many professing Christians today.
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6467 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
jaywill writes:
DeclinetoState,
Comment: the NIV is not necessarily "incorrect" here, so long as one understands that the comma is conjunctive and not indicating apposition. I wonder why they didn't adopt a similiar rendering in Matthew 28:19 - "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.." (NIV)
I think the passage in Matthew requires the prepostion in order to translate accurately, and leaving out "and" in front of a prepositional phrase would sound awkward: "...in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." I will address the other issues in the post if I feel I have something to add or if I desire clarification.
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6467 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
Now why on earth would Jesus want to split up families??? I think that He is essentially saying that because of His Oneness, there will be people either flocking towards Him (in communion) or rejecting Him. This seems to contradict passages saying that one should honor his (or her) mother and father, not to hate, etc. Of course, we can assert (and probably have to, when we get down to the end of the day), that Jesus is teaching different things on different levels. Now, taking this back to the question of the soul, is the soul on a "different" level from the spirit, the body, or anything else? Never overestimate the intelligence of someone who thinks you're wrong.
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6467 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
quote: Did all or a majority of Bible writers see the soul in all three ways mentioned above every time they used the word nephesh or psyche? More importantly, did they see it in any other ways not mentioned above?
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