The "Circle of the Earth"

hey, that's a nice animated gif. i need one of goalposts. you know, animated goalposts. ok. so, god drives a flying saucer. god orbits the earth. but god's orbit is circular, and not elliptical, because... it suits your argument? you're the one making god out to be a physical being, driving a UFO around the solar system, orbitting the earth. you know, that's nice. god's throne is a common theme in the bible. but look at the descriptions again -- they're not all like ezekiel's. look at the one in revelation. or the physical throne he has the israelites build for him in the wilderness. in fact, just a few posts up, i included another verse from isaiah, saying god's throne is heaven itself. hey, maybe that's what isaiah was talking about? it certainly fits the translation i provided several pages back. god also walks quite frequently in the bible. and travels around in a pillar of smoke/fire. and drives a chariot. and appears in a whirlwind. but i'm sure these are all the same thing to you. they're ALL a UFO. because we're reading a book, genius. before you go off half-cocked on whatever crackpot bs you happen to endorse this time around, it's best to know what exactly the description actually says, and then determine from that and the context what it means. you can't simply start from your particular conclusion, and read everything through the "UFO" filter. the text has to support it, not just sound vaguely like it might if we mistranslated it, misread it, and then discarded all the context. "answer a fool according to his follow, lest he be wise in his own deceit." until you can demonstrate those eternal, spiritual realities, we'll just sit here like pharaoh's magicians. remember, god won that battle. and the one on mount carmel.and even so, unless your "eternal, spiritual reality" includes a cosmic decoder ring, i think i'll side with what the bible says instead of your cockamamie misrepresentation of it. heck, even ray martinez found your points laughable. and he's into pyramidology, and all kinds of other BS. let me know when you run into it.

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It's not what I want, it's what the text says. Once again, the passage makes no sense if God is just another Martian in a sputtering, smoke-belching contraption.

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The text says nothing remotely similar to that. It talks of some "circle" that He sits on, where the earth folks look like grasshoppers.
That in no way takes away from His being all powerful.

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An orbit is constrained, by definition. If God can wander about as He pleases, it's not an orbit.

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Of course He can go where He pleases, and even hover, as the bible says He has done. But He also can sit on the circle of the earth while visiting. He can also walk in a garden if He likes, or go to New Jerusalem, etc. Having His wheels boot it over the circle of the earth for a bit, in no way limits Him.

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Well, there's nothing wrong with fables, of course. It's better to learn something from a fable than to pretend it's a science textbook.

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Ahh, now it comes out!!!!! What is more limiting to the Almighty, to have Him spend a little time in His mobile throne over earth one time, or to have Him write a whole book of sheer baloney, and nonsense, and fables, and claim it is true!!!!!!!Gotcha.

Frankly I know exactly what I am talking about, and you are missing the mark on this one. Really.

It's your silly flying Model T that takes away from His being all powerful. And that's not an orbit. It makes no sense for a passage about His power to confine Him to an orbit. Obviously, it's more limiting for Him to go putt-putting around in a material vehicle.(By the way, you're the one who said "baloney" and "nonsense", not me. Fables are neither.)

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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hey, that's a nice animated gif. i need one of goalposts. you know, animated goalposts.

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When dealing with God, you will need more than laws of present physics goalposts, that is for sure. Work on that.

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ok. so, god drives a flying saucer. god orbits the earth. but god's orbit is circular, and not elliptical, because... it suits your argument? you're the one making god out to be a physical being, driving a UFO around the solar system, orbitting the earth.

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If you claim to have some evidence of how a ship that is spiritual travels in a physical universe, do present it to us!!! Otherwise, it must be admitted you have no clue what it is you are talking about! Face it, you have NO reason to doubt the bible, that He sits on the circle of the earth.

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god also walks quite frequently in the bible. and travels around in a pillar of smoke/fire. and drives a chariot. and appears in a whirlwind. but i'm sure these are all the same thing to you. they're ALL a UFO.

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No!!! The Sceptre is very very special. Other flying vessels from heaven may come and go, and some even with angels, or etc on them. The sapphire throne of God is just special. That is why I cannot see anything else fitting the bill for the star of Bethlehem. But that may be a different thread.

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because we're reading a book, genius. before you go off half-cocked on whatever crackpot bs you happen to endorse this time around, it's best to know what exactly the description actually says, and then determine from that and the context what it means. you can't simply start from your particular conclusion, and read everything through the "UFO" filter. the text has to support it, not just sound vaguely like it might if we mistranslated it, misread it, and then discarded all the context.

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That depends on what conclusion one starts with. If one assume Him inept, and unreal, and a liar, why, one might come up with a different take on a verse than if one believed it was true, and sought to see how it could be true.

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"answer a fool according to his follow, lest he be wise in his own deceit."

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Let me get this real clear, then. You think that God, and the bible are foolish, and want to answer those that believe it according to their folly??? This is your motive??

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and even so, unless your "eternal, spiritual reality" includes a cosmic decoder ring, i think i'll side with what the bible says instead of your cockamamie misrepresentation of it. heck, even ray martinez found your points laughable. and he's into pyramidology, and all kinds of other BS.

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The bible can be decoded by asking God for help, and the spirit. One MUST be spiritually minded, or it will be so locked up, it will be foolishness to them.I don't know how you think I could run into the circle of the earth that God sits on. I would suspect that it intersects poor old Bethlehem.

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It's your silly flying Model T that takes away from His being all powerful.

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That isn't mine, the throne and wheels are from the bible. I just cannot see how having wheels takes anything away. Must be some conception you have.

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And that's not an orbit. It makes no sense for a passage about His power to confine Him to an orbit.

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Hovering is not an orbit, no, of course. That simply shows that the Sceptre is able to stop on a dime, as well as travel the universes, and, gasp, even orbit the earth if He feels like it. Why not??

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Obviously, it's more limiting for Him to go putt-putting around in a material vehicle.

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(By the way, you're the one who said "baloney" and "nonsense", not me. Fables are neither.)

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Well, I disagree, if the bible is not true, it is baloney. By the way, where did you get the idea that the Sceptre was a "material" vehicle?

I'm sorry your conception of God is so small.Edited by Ringo, : Cpelling.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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An all powerful God, that made this universe, and all others, that prevades as a spirit, all things in this universe, and also has a spirit body, and wheels is anything but small.A god that is a mere fable, and has a bible that is not true is tiny.Edited by simple, : No reason given.

You don't seem to have any understanding of what a fable is.But the topic is about what "the circle of the earth" means in Isaiah - in particular, whether or not the author(s) knew that the earth is spheroidal.The passage quite clearly indicates God looking down on a circular horizon. There is no hint of motion on His part - and any motion would detract from His omnipresence and ruin the story - so the "orbit" notion is a non-starter.Even if the "orbit" was plausible, it says nothing about sphericity.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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You don't seem to have any understanding of what a fable is.

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But the topic is about what "the circle of the earth" means in Isaiah - in particular, whether or not the author(s) knew that the earth is spheroidal.

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I have understanding that My God is not a fibber. If some want to grab at that verse to try and say that the bible was talking about the shape of the earth, I would call them out to prove that claim.Besides, I do not know that the eternal state of the earth is as it now is?? If it is actually circular, would it not make good sense that the Almighty would assume an orbit around the eternal true nature, rather than just the present state it happens to be in??

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The passage quite clearly indicates God looking down on a circular horizon. There is no hint of motion on His part - and any motion would detract from His omnipresence and ruin the story - so the "orbit" notion is a non-starter.

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How can you limit God to one view of a part of the horizon??? Weird. How small.Now, support your claim He had to be looking at a 'horizon'!!??? Says WHO???? Where did you pull that out of??

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Even if the "orbit" was plausible, it says nothing about sphericity.

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A machine that could travel more than trillions of times the present speed of present light, or hover at a standstill, could have no problem with an earth orbit, no. Now, WHO says that verse has to be speaking about the shape of the earth????? I do not see that in the bible, so where does it come from??? Why not try and look at what we actually have, rather than just making stuff up???

Actually, that would be cooler than a flying saucer. I can totally imagine God as Fred MacMurray in Son of Flubber.

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In many respects, the Bible was the world's first Wikipedia article. -- Doug Brown (quoted by Carlin Romano in The Chronicle Review)

I assume you meant "for" children. I got the same impression when I first began studying the Hebrew language of Genesis (with my few crude tools). I agree. And must therfore reiterate my position that "without form and void" has confused many would be interpreters and baffled millions of sincere Sunday School students. It is, conceptually, completely different from what one would expect, given how the same Hebrew language is treated anywhere else in the Bible. While it is true that your interpretation is preferrable in terms of eliminating that particular confusion, I am still concerned by what seems to me an unnecessary mental gymnastic.My impression, correct me if I am wrong, is that you reject Philo's spiritual interpretation and imagine a substantive 'erets created (on day three) under water and subsequently revealed when the water is drawn down. Yes? I am often tempted by apparent connections but it's a hazardous venture. That said, I see and appreciate your observation; especially because it does not seem to threaten my theory. On the other hand, better scholars than I have proposed that tehom is an Hebraicism of Tiamat. Both indicative of the waters of chaos. Not that this would obviate the connection which you propose. Are you saying that tohu may be an evolved form of tehom? Or that tehom might be the plural of tohu? How cool is that, in terms of discovery?! Yep. I was reachin'.

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Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

"The circle of the earth". The most direct reading of that phrase is the shape of the earth, not the path of motion of some object not even mentioned in the verse."The inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers". The most direct reading of that phrase is that God sees them from a distance. Again, there is no mention whatsoever of God moving. Now, that is certainly "making stuff up", as anybody can see.But I'll remind you again: even if the "orbit" nonsense was plausible, it's not the topic. The topic is about whether or not the phrase "circle of the earth" suggests that the author(s) of Isaiah knew that the earth is spheroidal.You have made it very clear that what you call an "orbit" isn't a real orbit at all. God would be free to move about in any direction at any speed and any height in this "vehicle" of His. Unless the motion is constrained by gravity, it isn't an orbit.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

A for effort. Better than some here, who imagine there is God at all.

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it's a creation story, and it starts in the beginning. it's meant to be the foundation of time, primarily, so the notion that there was a time before this is frankly inconcievable.

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Yep. I was reachin'.

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No, it is elementary that there was time. How else would there be days, and mornings, and evenings, etc, even before there was a sun and stars? Of course God was around, and Jesus, and etc etc etc etc. They knew all about time, and it was here, all that was not here was this universe. Once that got here, it also, of course had time. Now, if you mean the space time fabric we now know, that is another matter. No need to go there.