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Author Topic:   Exodus Part One: Hebrews/Israelites in Egypt
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4024 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 16 of 108 (210958)
05-24-2005 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Brian
05-24-2005 9:20 AM


Re: Exodus 12:37
Working backwards from Ex 32:29 'there fell of the people that day about three thousand men', might suggest a different interpretation of 'thousands' as 'families'.. Unless we are talking about three 'families' slain by the sons of Levi? Obviously, 2-3 million people plus livestock couldn`t survive on the water available in their travels, manna or no manna. In WW1, the British Army had to pipe water from the Sweetwater Canal to sustain 50,000 men at one of the most plentiful oases on the line of march into Palestine (From Suez to Aleppo-Keogh)

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4024 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 36 of 108 (211041)
05-25-2005 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Cold Foreign Object
05-24-2005 8:17 PM


Literary is premium evidence, archaelogical is sub-premium, dependant upon the arbitrary and capricious kindness of time, environment, and weather.
C`mon, Ray, get real. While artifacts may be misinterpreted, they don`t change. Which of your literary masterpieces exists in the original? You are using versions of versions.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4024 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 58 of 108 (212210)
05-28-2005 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by jar
05-28-2005 12:43 PM


Re: How to proceed?
Hi, Jar, the odd thing about the Santorini eruption (circa 1615-1645B.C.) is how little impact it made on Middle East peoples. Apart from the Minoans, you would think it passed unobserved. With a VEI (Volcanic Explosivity Index) of 6-6.9, or approximately the size of Krakatau in 1883,with the widespread effects there, and ashfall deposits found as wide afield as Egypt through to eastern Turkey, surely nations would have experienced atmospheric effects at the very least. Acid ice-cores dating to 1615 B.C. were recovered from Greenland drilling programs, indicating the potential for crop changes. But, the Hebrews in Egypt never noticed them. But, then, they never noticed the Pyramids, the Sphinx, annual flooding of the Nile, canal irrigation,large ships, even the development of superb glass-making or metal-working. Almost like they weren`t there.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4024 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 63 of 108 (212318)
05-29-2005 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by MangyTiger
05-29-2005 12:14 AM


Re: How to proceed?
Hi, MT, rather than exploit settled areas, don`t you think nomads living off marginal lands might be forced into formerly lush country in search of sustenance? Nomadic existence is borderline at most times, and failure of grazing and water would make the tribes move into areas they knew would support their livestock as well as themselves. Finkelstein (The Bible Unearthed) talks of evidence of an annual migration by desert-dwellers to agricultural villages to trade grain for animal products. Maybe the pressure of existence as a result of Santorini caused the nomads to overrun their former trading partners?

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4024 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 65 of 108 (212591)
05-30-2005 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Brian
05-30-2005 6:15 AM


Re: How to proceed?
I certainly think that a good case can be made based on circumstantial evidence for Israelites in Egypt.
Unless the Hebrew 'msrym' refers to Misramah in Asir, not Egypt.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 4024 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 103 of 108 (230625)
08-06-2005 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Brian
08-06-2005 5:55 AM


Re: Exodus facts and legend
Before the Census of Numbers 1. The Book of Exodus mentions "600,000 men on foot" in the hebrew exodus from egypt. This is obviously a mistranslation on the copyists part or just part of an oral exaggeration. Obviously 6,000, or more realisticly 600 men were first intedned. Let's say there were 600 men, that would give an entire Exodus population of 2,400-3,000--Satisfyingly realistic enough.
If you could squeeze the number to 2-3000 it would certainly be more realistic for certain events, would cause problems with some others though, I couldnt imagine that amount storming Jericho.
Trouble is, if you fiddle with numbers, how many were slain at Mt. Sinai, 3000 or 30 or 3?(Ex 32:29) Then again, the breeding program must have kicked in to produce the tribal roll-call in Numbers:26

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