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Author | Topic: Why must we believe *before* we die? | |||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I have personally believed that many people do, in fact, become believers once the choice is clear to them...which for some, happens after the physical death. God is not so mean as to limit the exclusivity of Heaven...He wills that whosoever can come in.
Communion is a mystery and a beautiful love relationship.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
RR writes:
*Ahem*... So if God doesn't reveal himself to me, I may draw the conclusion that I am not good? I believe that God reveals Himself to different people at different times of their lives and in different ways. Just because you have never seen evidence of Him does not mean that you never will. I believe that we do not "find" God. He finds us. It may happen a number of ways, Robin. If you were on a football team, you may miss the cut, but if you never knew what football even was, how could they cut you? (EvC Forum: A Play:RR- (As Lt. Dan Taylor) So where in the heck is this "god" of yours? Phatboy-(As Forrest Gump) And then all of a sudden, God showed up! AdminJar-(As God) OFF TOPIC! DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE! This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-18-2005 07:49 AM
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Mick writes: It seems vindictive, childish and remarkably selfish to require adulation from the little petty creatures one has created (before or after death, to be honest). Which is the better thing to teach your child?1) You are a little petty creature! Be in awe of this great Universe and strive to understand it a bit more. 2) You are fearfully and wonderfully made. You were foreknown before you were born. Be humble and strive to understand and get to know the One who created you? In the first case, humans are taught that they are of minor significance and our job in life is to be curious, uncertain, and reverential towards a creatorless "grand design"...a concept of human wisdom BTW (those petty creatures!) In the second case, a human is taught that they have a purpose and a destiny in life and that we were created..obviously by our parents, but in a grander sense by a Creator whose wisdom will always exceed our own. (which makes us loved and not petty little germs.) BTW..why is it so irritating that God is selfish?It's Sinatras world...we just live here! This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-18-2005 07:59 AM
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
RR writes: A good example of how God reveals Himself..but I see no evidence that the others, some at least (probably John) did not already know the revelation. Judas, apparantly, did not. We see no evidence that any of the other disciples were less enlightened than Peter. Let's go back to the passage from Matthew. Why did God reveal himself to Peter and not the others? My answer was that Peter was pure of heart. How do you interpret that scene?The Church was built upon the rock of revealed knowledge through the Holy Spirit...not on Peter the Apostle. Then again, this is a whole nother topic! RR writes: Nice of you to be sensitive to us...I am sometimes a bit too abrasive also! The play has been discontinued because I realized it was rude and insensitive to fellow posters.Alas....EvC is a play in and of itself, anyway! This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-18-2005 09:02 AM
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
This makes sense to me!
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Robinrohan writes: Heaven is the place where all the paradoxes are supposed to unravel--one is both a self and not a self; God is both all-powerful and all-good and yet contains or creates or permits evil; people are both free and pre-destined; what God says is good is good and yet God also obeys some higher laws of goodness . . .If everybody is equally bad, then He might as well let us all off. No need for hell. The analogy seems a little confused. If we are fish, then the water corresponds to worldly evil, or something of that sort. Dry land equals heaven. So heaven can't be water....If everybody is equally bad, then He might as well let us all off. No need for hell. Iano writes: "The Gospel is Good News for bad people and Bad News for good people"....God doesn't create evil, he creates choice. Consider the following: Heat exists, Cold doesn't. Cold is simply the absence of heat. Light exists, Darkness doesn't, Darkeness is simply the absence of light. Good exists, evil doesn't. Evil in simply the absence of Good. When God is excluded, evil follows. God doesn't obey higher laws, He is these things. Don't forget wrath and justice. Don't fall for the line God is Love - period. Analogies DO have to be seen in context. NIV writes: In context, this would seem confusing lined up next to the scrip that says: Isa 5:20-21 20 Woe to those who call evil goodand good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. 21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyesand clever in their own sight. NIV writes: Unless we understand who "us" is. Job gives insight.... Gen 3:2222 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." NIV writes: Us must evidently refer to Heavenly angels and the LORD. Now...Revelation speaks of a conflict.
Job 1:6-7-- One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." NIV writes: So in a "literal" or parable type of context, God and His angels are of one Spirit and Satan and his angels are of another. Rev 12:7-9--And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down-that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. For those of you who suggest that it is Gods fault, I suppose that in a sense He created all things. Remember, however, that He never created the War. There would have been no war without rebellion. Rebellion, by definition, is trying to be God instead of letting God be God. Trying to be God seems to me to be a type of allowable free will in an angelic sense.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
In an angelic sense there is a difference.
Right now, we just is as we is. Perhaps a question: Do we choose our destiny in life? I have heard it said that "we become the decisions that we make." What does this mean to you?
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
As to the sub-topic of this post, It should be noted that not only is there neither Male nor Female in Heaven, there is certainly no room for competing egos. The Lucifer/Satan tale taught us that. As for the drop of water analogy, it is very apt.
Parasomnium writes: Don't you ever get tired of yourself?In other words, we must decrease so that God can increase within us? A true nonpantheistic communion of relationship between God and humanity! Don't get me wrong, I don't mean that as a deprecating remark about your personality, but as a possible example of the motivation you asked about. Many of us (charismatics) often have inflated egos that we attribute to God. It is humbling to admit when I am wrong.
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