Why so friggin' confident?

With me, faith and evidence are inseparable. Without evidence I would have faith in nothing. That's what keeps me with the Bible after reading much in books like the Quran, the Book of Mormon, the Buddhist, Hindu and other Eastern doctrines etc.Were it not for the fulfilled prophecies of the Bible relative to Jesus, the crucifixion, Israel, the Arab nations, etc I would have likely gone the way of Taz way back in my teen years before I realized there were also personal experiences corroborative to evidence supportive of faith which John 10:10 alludes to.When I drive down the freeway, I have no guarantee that the next bridge I cross will not fall. Some have fallen killing the hapless people who had faith in them. But the observed evidence that the bridges will not likely fall strengthens my faith to the point that I drive on believing they will all hold me up.OTO if I wanted to cross an old long time unused bridge over a creek leading up to a shed in which there were things I wanted to load into my truck I might opt to park my truck on the road for lack of evidenced faith in the observed bridge and cart out what I wanted from the shed. Edited by Buzsaw, : qramatical fix

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

The faith lies in the unknowns, i.e. how can anything be eternal, etc.Like my bridge analogy, some freeway bridges do indeed fall with travelers plunging to their death. However the evidence that few bridges fail bolsters the faith in the majority which do not. The more corroborating evidences one has for one's hypothesis, the more one can argue for the hypothesis.There is an element of faith in science. Science assembles what the scientists regard as evidence for the hypothesis. The more evidence, the more substantial the hypothesis becomes. Scientists, both Biblically inclined and secularly inclined end up with unknowns which require an element of faith; faith bolstered by the evidence relative to the knowns.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Listen to your mum. She has enough savvy to understand that the white melts into the soil so when the cows eat the green grass grown in the soil the white comes out in the milk.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Razd. Thanks for the kind greeting. May your 1909 be healthful and fulfilling. I hope you're doing better than you were a year or so go.1. Biblical prophecy, Biblical archeology, Biblical history etc are all tentative relative to the credibility of the Biblical record.2. As I have explained, faith is exercised upon the unknowns relative to the hypothesis, the safety of the bridge or the credibility of a given record, etc.3. Faith in the Biblical god, Jehovah rests upon the observable known evidence of the Biblical record which alleges his existence and claims about him in that record.This is all tentative relative to new archaeological data, ongoing fulfillment of prophecy, verification of history, verifiable phenomena such as healings, etc. The Biblical record is tentative to new evidence relative to these factors as they are added to the evidence base. For example, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Six Day War in Israel of 1967, The Exodus archaeological expeditions and research, Robert Ballard's Black Sea discoveries, etc can all be regarded by creationists as evidence to bolster our faith in the Biblical record. Thus our faith in Jehovah, the Biblical god is bolstered as well.4. Though mainline science does not regard theory as absolute Truth, it's status is pretty much regarded as absolute and exclusive by the majority of science fora, institutions and media.5. Much in the Biblical record which is regarded by most as faith based is falsifiable and therefore, tentative.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Easy. Lack of evidence needful to justify faith in all of the above but the Hebrew Bible.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

All of us here at EvC tout our various beliefs. The problem with the OP is that it essentially classifies all faiths/beliefs as blind and having no evidence. It is implying that the Biblical arguments have no evidence and only the secularist arguments have evidence. Some of us are effectively debunking that OP implication.Example: Cited fulfilled prophecy relative to phenomenal restoration of the nation of Israel by descendents of ancient Israel scattered globally lends evidential support to the yet unfulfilled aspects of the prophecy relative to the future destiny of the nation of Israel. This all lends evidential support to the Biblical record at large. That's just one example. The more of these kinds of things you can corroborate as evidence the more balanced the faith becomes with the evidence relative to the Biblical record.The OP also implies that there is no element of faith in secularist hypotheses and theories when in fact there are aspects of these which are unknown but assumed in order to accommodate the given hypothesis or theory. Therefore some of us are claiming that there are some (I say some) elements of faith in secularist sciences.If you are alleging that evidence supported faith is not faith, then, well I guess belief in the Biblical record is not faith and arguments for it's claims, like the belief in the existence of the Biblical god Jehovah, are not faith based arguments.Having said the above, some faith based ideologies do require blind faith having no evidence. However, most of the debates here at EvC pertain to Biblicists, some of who require and cite more evidence than others to under-gird our faith in the Biblical record. Some preach faith and philosophize. Others debate evidence. Still, others do both.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Message 5 does not define faith. It asks what faith is and why Biblicalists believe in such things as the virgin birth.The opener in message 5 states: Then this: (embolding mine for emphasis)This sure sounds like what we've been discussing and debating relative to evidence enhanced faith to me. Nevertheless, if you still insist that this thread is not for me, say so and I'll find something else to do. Well then, with all due respect for your authority, you shouldn't have promoted the topic at all because message 5 asks for reasons why folks believe in the such things as the virgin birth.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Typical. We bonafide creationists must operate with half our brain tied up. The OP etc up through message 5 goes all over the spectrum of faith from blind to "science" and knowledge based faith abe: as I have documented. You choose to limit your counterparts here to the end of the spectrum which eliminates the effectiveness of evidence relative to Biblical based faith and limit the arguments to "faith is blind feely nonsense."Sorry, feely feely faith doesn't cut it for me so I'll find something else to do. Enjoy. Edited by Buzsaw, : emboldened

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Creos are not suppose to discuss knowledgeable things like evidence in this thread. The thread is for blind feely faith.
We believe it because the Bible says so and I feel like the Bible is true.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

No, not the list perse. You receive him, Jesus as your savior and lord/master. If you do this sincerely, realizing that you are a lost soul, and believing that he died for your sins, watch and see what happens. It may surprise you when the spirit of Jesus and of God his father enters into your being and begins to enlighten you in the scriptures and other things if you seriously get into the scriptures. This is the personal thing that confirms faith, effects peace in the soul and understanding to the mind relative to life, where the world is going and why things are as they are.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message 127 is about the fundamentals of Biblical application and effects of faith relative to my personal experience and as I have observed in the lives of others; not about evidence supportive to faith.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

(abe: I exercise profound faith.) Most religions have profound faith only. Some of us in the Biblical camp require more. That's why in both the OT and the NT God nearly always effected some miracle to lend reason for profound faith. He did it with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob Moses, Gideon, David and all of the OT notables as well as the nation of Israel at large. That's why Jesus and the apostles did miraculous things. Again, Jesus kept asking his adversaries why they rejected him, having witnessed all of his miracles.ABE:
Free Dictionary: profound: Free Dictionary: faith: Jesus often cited the OT prophets with the Pharisees who didn't have faith in his claim as messiah.The apostle Paul to the church at Thessalonica to "prove all things." I Thessalonians 5:21I don't see anywhere in the Bible where anyone who amounted to anything exercised profound faith alone. (abe: The folks I've known over the last 60 plus years, since my conversion, who rely on profound faith alone are the least confident of all, many opting out of Christianity altogether.I have discussed religion with people of many faiths over the decades, having traveled a lot and having lived in many areas of the US. This is nearly always my challenge to them. Show me some (do I dare say the e word?) for the Book of Mormon, the Quran etc. Anyhow, all any of them have, except Biblicalists is profound faith alone in their belief. Then I go from there to share the uniqueness of the Biblical record that it offers much more than a profound faith. Reality man asks the Biblicalists on this board why we are so friggin confident, about our faith. I understood the question to be to all of us who exercise faith. Faith plays a significant role in my personal experience.I think Reality Man should should weigh in on this controversy which he initiated instead of sitting back with no substantive response to anything in the thread. Edited by Buzsaw, : ADDITIONS

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Reality Man, how about it? Have you learned anything in this thread of yours? If so, what? If not, why not? What do you mean, the science of faith?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Thanks very much, Admin.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

But RAZD, there are unknowns, un-empirically substantiated and debatable aspects of all hypotheses and theories. I have posted responses to the arguments relative to the debatables while debating the Exodus. I am not going into any of that here, but cite it to make my point.You and yours acknowledge the debatables and mysterious aspects of abiogenesis as well as the Big Bang, for example. It is the same for Biblicalists here with the Exodus. We who argue for it go with the researched givens relative to evidence which undergirds our faith. We do the best we can with the debatables and unknowns similarly as you do. We believe that this evidence as with others like the prophecies that we have enough evidence to effect an/a hypothesis and go from there working on the debatables.As with you people we all, regardless of ideology, must exercise a greater or lesser degree of faith, the degree of faith depending on the ratio of givens to non-givens in the hypothesis.The only difference in the ideologies, relative to faith, is that compatible terminology is graciously afforded to secularists while faith is the only terminology strictly encumber upon Biblicalists by mainstream science, media and fora which happens to have the majority bully pulpit.Can we agree on that, RAZD?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.