Why so friggin' confident?

Because if they didn't happen then they wouldn't be in the Bible!Most of these guys don't recognise circular reasoning Percy.

It would be using that certain thing as proof that the contents of that certain thing are true.

It may or may not be true, and it would depend on what it is claiming (as well as other things) as to whether it is disregarded or not.What you could say is that source 'X' suggests that Jesus was born in Bethlehem and when asked for proof that Jesus was born in Bethlehem you say that source 'X' says so.There are many other factors of course, such as author, date of composition, but my point is that to use a source as proof that what that source says is true is circular reasoning.Take the Bethelem thing again. Whether Micah refers to a town or a tribe is immaterial for this example. I have been told many times that Jesus fulfilled the prophecy in Micah 5:2 because He was born in Bethlehem, when I ask for proof of this ALL I am given is another part of the Bible!Of course this doesn't mean that He wasnt born in Bethlehem, it just means that using a source to prove itself isn't very good scholarship. If we all took this approach then how could we deny anything in any religion or historical text?

But your different writers in the NT were sitting looking at the OT while they were writing their books.Put it this way, if you were living in first century Palestine and were going to invent a messiah where would say he was born?It is easy to ”fulfil’ prophecies hundreds of year after they were written down. Plus, the books of the Bible were selected by councils because of harmony, that’s why so many Gospels were left out.There’s nothing amazing about the books of the Bible, they were hand picked from scores of texts. I would examine the content of the source for plausibility, and in this case I would have to disregard the Gospel account as the information is historically ridiculous. For a start there is no record of this worldwide census, plus, how silly is it to ask people to travel to the city of their birth to register? Can you imagine the chaos this would cause? What if I came from France and was living in Jerusalem, would I have to travel way back to my home town in France? Luke says everyone went to their own town to register, and this is implausible and illogical.Then we have to wonder why Joseph took along his heavily pregnant wife with him.So, while Jesus may have been born in Bethlehem, the evidence is strongly against it. My studies have led me to the opposite conclusion.We may or may not find out one day who was correct.

What if someone hears the Word but is not convicted by the Word?

No sorry I wasn't, I maybe should have explained better.I know many people who have claimed to 'hear' the Word of God.These normally fall into two camps.Firstly, the 'hearing' is more a revelation, or a realisation of what the Word (in this case the NT) is actually saying. You have probably witnessed discussions here at EvC where believers say that us non-believers will never understand the Word (Bible) until we read it in the presence of the Holy Spirit, or we are filled with the Spirit.Secondly, I have spoken to many Christians who hear a voice in their head whilst reading the Bible or while praying to God for some sort of guidance.I have never spoke to a Christian who claims that they have heard God's voice in the context of it being an external voice that anyone in the room would hear. Women are exempt? What if I decided to go to the end of the road anyway, and discovered that the bridge wasn't out?Now this isn't to suggest that you had lied, you may be mistaken, or the bridge may have been repaired before I got there.Here's the problem I have with this sort of 'tuning' in to the Word.
I won't mention any names, or the context of how I know this person, but they are one of these born-again evangelical young earth creationist types that I speak to a lot, in real life, not on a discussion board.We have many discussions about the Bible's accuracy in regard to history and theology. Now his angle every single time he is in difficulty is that I cannot understand the Bible because I am not trying hard enough to see what the Bible is actually saying! he keeps saying that if I opened myself up to the Holy Spirit then everything in the Bible would become clear to me, there would be no historical errors and no logical problrms either.What I feel here is that there is a type of self-hypnosis going on, I think that psychologically we could quite easily self delude ourselves into thinking that God is wonderful and the Bible is some sort of amazing supernatural book. I think if we took this approach with anything we could believe that it is true, psychiatric wards are full of people who are certain that they can speak to aliens, or are in contact with some historical long dead character and are as certain of this as any Christian is of their experience.Then, for me, there's this problem of selection. Why is it that there are some people who will never hear the Word? It cannot be down to their stubborness or lack of interest because God can do anything, so is God deliberately allowing people to be damned?

What a sad sad existance John 10:10, truly heartbreaking to see so many lives just wasted living out this fantasy.This is the 21st century and you and others are living out a huge game based on ancient campfire folk tales, there's so much in life that you people will never experience because of your illness.I don't know whether to laugh or cry, either way it is a damn shame that so many people in this condition. I wish there was a cure.

I have believed in and trusted God to take care of me since I was 9 years and 11 months old.

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I have been privileged to help build many churches and even to build a couple myself.

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I have been privileged to be a member of one of God's churches that had a membership made up of people from 18 different countries for 13 years.

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I have a lovely group of God's children that I teach the Bible too.

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I do not worry about tomorrow because I know who hold's tomorrow.

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I do owe God everything.

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These are but a few of the things that I am blessed with.As I said: "This is the 21st century and you and others are living out a huge game based on ancient campfire folk tales."Although I would say that you are not quite are certifiable as John 10:10, you are still living out a self-deluding fantasy.Tell me this, do you tell the kids at Bible class that it is a fact that Jesus rose from the dead or it is a belief? Do you tell them that God may or may not exist?

You could start by telling them that this....I believe God formed the first man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and he became a living soul. God then took a rib from the man and performed the first cloning process and made a woman. They then produced offspring. is a folk tale that is full of contradictions and logical errors.You know what is probably the saddest thing, you actually miss out on appreciating the Bible.You, and others of course, are not in the slightest bit interested in how the Bible came into being, you have it on this pedastal of revelation from a supernatural being that there is not a single shred of evidence for and think that it holds all the answers to all of mankinds' questions.Christians cannot appreciate the authors invention of historical events in the Bible because they need everything in it to be true.A great example of your self-delusion is your wild claim that God is a loving entity, how anyone can view the God of the Bible as anything other than pure evil is psychologically unsound.I believed all sorts of things were real when I was nealry ten years old, but you do eventually need to grow up and realise that there is no Santa Claus, there are no fairies at the bottom of the garden, and there is no God.

Nothing delusional mate, I know the world isn't 6000 years old, I know people never lived for 969 years, I know that Jesus was no Messiah. These are all facts. Of course I have, why else would I believe what I do. I am not some sort of sad, moronic, desperate theist who goes around grasping at any straw that they think will keep their fantasy going. Don't lump me in with your deranged Christian colleagues whose best argument for the existence of God is "well, prove that He doesn't exist." Yeah it is truly sad that I don't believe in a being that is too thick and evil to be real.

I never asked you to replace it with anything.But for an adult to believe that the stories of Adam and Eve are actually true is extremely sad.Forget for a minute that the story of Adam and Eve has went through a few editings, but this is one of the things that you and other Christians are missing out on. The beauty of the imagination of ancient philosophers to come up with these myths to explain the world around them is completely lost on you, you claim to love a book yet you do it a disservice everyday of your life.Oh and while I am at creation and evolution, I have never (or maybe the odd time) argued in any scientific forum on behalf of evolution, I haven't studied evolution at a decent academic level, my archaeological studies obviously touched on evolution, but that was mainly social evolution. I will argue all day about how society has evolved, and all day about archaeology and the ancient near east because these are topics I have studied at a high academic level, but I am not equipped with the skills to argue the scientific details of the evolution of life. Tell you what, as soon as you provide ANY evidence for the existence of Yahweh I show you where you are going wrong.Do you want evidence for the nonexistence for the invisible tartan monkey that lives on Jupiter and created the universe and everything in it?

John 10:10, you are a perfect example of what I am talking about.Keep up the good work, your inane ramblings are a warning to others what can happen to your mind when you become a born-again Christian.

If I throw a double six do I get another go?

The candles on your birthday cake must give off some heat!And good luck with the Lord thing, it seems He was as deluded as you.

That's not a very good game is it?Don't worry, there's always an escape clause. Yahweh is that thick it is very easy to trick Him.