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Author Topic:   What is needed for creationists to connect evidence to valid conclusions
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 147 (445652)
01-03-2008 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
01-01-2008 9:09 AM


Percy writes:
This is perhaps Buz's best point. Creationists don't accept scientific arguments concerning the origin of life or the origin of species because it just seems so incredibly miraculous that matter and energy could just do this all by themselves without guidance. It is easier for them to accept the miracle of God than the miracle of unguided matter and energy creating life.
Can a pot make a Potter? It’s not only easier to believe in Gods hand, it also makes more sense.
Percy writes:
To have legitimacy, creationism has to develop consistent criteria for what it accepts and rejects in science. Creationists accept science that gives them better televisions and computers, or spectacular pictures of Jupiter and Eta Carina, but they reject it if it comes anywhere near their belief in the Bible, and this criteria has nothing to do with evidence or the quality of evidence.
Now here you’re lumping formal sciences with evolutionary science. What has evolutionary science ever done for any one, except maybe make a hand full of people rich on the ignorance of the rest of the religious. And to think of the wasted lives devoted to finding the unfindable almost brings tears to my eyes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 01-01-2008 9:09 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by nwr, posted 01-03-2008 10:34 AM LucyTheApe has not replied
 Message 16 by Rahvin, posted 01-03-2008 10:51 AM LucyTheApe has replied
 Message 17 by Percy, posted 01-03-2008 11:06 AM LucyTheApe has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 147 (445671)
01-03-2008 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Percy
01-03-2008 11:06 AM


Percy writes:
Why is it that when talking about evolution, creationists spend much of their time talking about unrelated evidence from Bible instead of evidence from the natural world.
Some do. If the bible was found to be correct in its telling of history. And genetics was to confirm that we were all from 8 common {human} ancestors then wouldn't you have to recalibrate your measuring rods to take into account a global flood?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Percy, posted 01-03-2008 11:06 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 01-03-2008 11:33 AM LucyTheApe has not replied
 Message 20 by Percy, posted 01-03-2008 11:39 AM LucyTheApe has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 147 (445688)
01-03-2008 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Percy
01-03-2008 11:39 AM


What I was saying is if there was an authoritative revelation of an historic event, a global flood, and subsequent observation agrees, then one would expect that the previously held belief that the world has been continuously passive biologically, geologically and atmospherically (if thats how its been) would have to be reviewed in light of the new reality.
For example the abundant release of carbon into the atmosphere, lack of oxygen, earthquakes, rifts, erosion to name a few.
See instead of creating meteorites to account for dinosaur extinction, in other words making up a reality to make a phenomenon fit the theory, (now were told they didn't get blown up, they turned into birds), you would have to take into account observable realities and then try to fit your theory around them.
Or is that not how it works?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Percy, posted 01-03-2008 11:39 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 01-03-2008 1:03 PM LucyTheApe has not replied
 Message 23 by Percy, posted 01-03-2008 1:17 PM LucyTheApe has replied
 Message 24 by PaulK, posted 01-03-2008 2:10 PM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 147 (445759)
01-03-2008 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Percy
01-03-2008 1:17 PM


Percy writes:
There are plenty of threads where taking shots at evolution would be on-topic. This isn't one of them.
I'll try to make it a simple as I can.
If the bible proves to be historically correct, through observation, all the way back to Noah, would you then consider looking for evidence of a flood? I'm not saying that because it's in the book it's true, I'm saying that it says so in the book. That's all, no observations or realities yet.
If evidence of a global flood poked you in the eye, would you then consider the implications this has on our understanding of the geology of the earth. Even to the extent of throwing out old long and hard held beliefs of an old earth, radiodating and the like, if need be. Or would you reject the concept of a flood and it's implications only because its written in the bible?
I don't think it's a hard question to understand or answer. If It seems that I'm having a shot a evolutionists, that is not my intention. But I've just watched a show that concluded by saying dinosaurs didn't go extinct, they turned into birds. I had to sit down and have a glass of water.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Percy, posted 01-03-2008 1:17 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by PaulK, posted 01-04-2008 1:59 AM LucyTheApe has replied
 Message 48 by Percy, posted 01-04-2008 8:50 AM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 147 (445762)
01-03-2008 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Rahvin
01-03-2008 10:51 AM


occam's razor
quote:
What's easiest to believe is not a good foundation for the determination of what's true. It's a good determination of who is intellectually lazy and doesn't really care about facts or accuracy.
  —Rahvin
Franciscan friar William of Ockham may disagree with you as I do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Rahvin, posted 01-03-2008 10:51 AM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Granny Magda, posted 01-03-2008 8:53 PM LucyTheApe has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 147 (445784)
01-03-2008 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Granny Magda
01-03-2008 8:53 PM


Re: occam's razor
G'day Granny,
We might be spitting hairs here.
A creator God seems a simpler explanation for the universe existing than does a complex combination of all the natural laws + long periods of time + magic on occasions.
It's also easier to believe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Granny Magda, posted 01-03-2008 8:53 PM Granny Magda has not replied

Replies to this message:
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LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 147 (445862)
01-04-2008 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by PaulK
01-04-2008 1:59 AM


Simplicity
PaulK writes:
Let me put it simply. Evidence that the Bible is correct on one point - even a major one - is not, in itself, good evidence that the Bible is right on some other point. Proving that the Flood happened doesn't change the f.......
This forum is just a waste of time. It's not possible to put my argument is two two letter words.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by PaulK, posted 01-04-2008 1:59 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by PaulK, posted 01-04-2008 7:50 AM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
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